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Poor Rhaella. She gave birth to Rhaegar during a tragedy and died giving birth to Daenerys during a storm
@Harleking YT she's literally called Danaerys Stormborn
It could be argued that she was the Blood component of the fire ritual
The beginning of the end
@Konstantin Yagodin If you take what each of them believes about their births and ages to be accurate. That’s kinda the point of the theory, that Jon and Dany are both misinformed about their respective origins.
@NewEnglandChris Very funny, but Dany is a couple years younger than Jon, and Lyanna died giving birth to Jon, so no
I can understand why the Targs have an obsession with prophecy, it's how they survived the Doom. So it would make poetic sense if their reliance on dreams ultimately ended their line.
@Shinigami pretty hard to write well
My guess is they probably didnt know what he was up to and got people gathered, he probably tried to have people sacrificed or killed against there will and things got out of control.
@Shinigami He's waiting for the prophecy.
@Atomic Perhaps but... all the dreams and prophecies of the Targaryens makes "Daenys the Dreamer" quite possible
@Kevin Freitas Even Dragons can die if there's TOO much heat, like at Valyria
"fire and blood" is literally the family slogan. It's the recipe to hatch dragons.
That's probably how to force them to hatch though... we learn that past asshai dragons roam. We shouldn't assume that all those dragons come from a sacrifice. It's like the chicken and the egg.
so many targaryens and not one dared to use human sacrifice, which would probably work. dany sacrificed drogo and rhaego and herself and it worked
@Faisal kamal You guys are hilarious!Gotta get your intake of iron somehow, I suppose.
It seems incredible that the Targaryen dynasty lasted for another 125 years after the death of the last dragon
@C Pegg Morning was known and accounted for, so when "the last dragon" died, it is certain Morning was dead already.
Well, the dragons Silverwing, Morning, Sheepstealer, and The Cannibal are never confirmed to hav died; they could all still be alive.
Well, it was long enough so people were born into a unified realm and even their grandfathers didn't know anything else. Plus if any lord wanted to revolt and gain independence, the rest would keep him in check.Unification was good for commerce, it was a way to avoid a lot of wars. I mean, even couple of years ago Scotland had a chance to declare independence and they refused it in a vote.
Um they can still get it on lol so procreation wasn't an issue
It seems incredible because that's what allowed them to gain the throne in the first place. They didn't gain the 7 kingdoms through shrewd diplomacy and good politics, they used magic to get it so it's surprising they were ae to maintain the kingdom without it.
I never knew before now that the main Baratheon brothers were so closely related to the Targaryen royal line. It's weird to think Bobby B and Dany share a great-grandfather and despite being decades apart in age are technically in the same generation of this family tree.
That’s actually pretty real thing. Almost all real life monarchs were blood related. And yeah, that didn’t stop them from waging warsI mean the three main monarchs of the world war 1 - British, German and Russian were cousins essentially
If only she had just known her place and married Robert. Instead of running away with some inbred musician who is is already married with 2 kids and a wife. Sorry but Robert was the better man
I always thought it was crazy Robert and Rhaegar were 1st cousins. I wonder if they had any sort of friendship as children. We know king scab was close friends with Robert's father as kids and adults
@lovekaaay That’s the whole reason Robert started his rebellion, killed Rhaegar, and took the iron throne. It’s discussed throughout season 1 of the show that he believed Rhaegar kidnapped Ned Starks sister who Robert was in love with and set up to marry. But it reality she was in love with Rhaegar and not Robert and ran away with him willingly which is revealed much later in the show and that they happily married and had Jon. But Ned knew Robert would decide the baby was born of rape and kill it in his anger and hatred for Rhaegar so Ned pretended Jon was his bastard and that he cheated on his wife when really he didn’t. Thus why Jon was actually the rightful heir to the throne.
House Baratheon was essentially a cadet branch of House Targaryen. Orys Baratheon was Aegon the Conqueror's half brother. And then there's Princess Rhaenys, the Queen Who Never Was, whose mother was a Baratheon. Robert and Rhaegar are 2nd cousins too because Rhaelle married into House Baratheon.
The Tragedy of Summerhall was just the gender reveal party for Rhaegar.
@Odin Satanas 23,000 acres. They got sentenced for 30 crimes including involuntary man slaughter.
This did not age well… fucking Wild fires in America from a gender reveal party
R:"I identify as a dragon."
Is it You Toube channel?
15:26 Who is Joe Magician
The reveal that the Targaryans knew about the coming war between the dead and the living could help explain why Egg was so desperate to get dragons back into the world. He knew they'd be needed
@Josh Miller so in HoTD, viserys says that Aegon foresaw the long night coming and that the whole of game of thrones was predicted by the conquerer, which is what led him to conquer Westeros, fans of the books gave crazy backlash to the writers for this as they said it was a huge leap to make as the books never mentioned anything of the sort and that it changed lore way too much. However, afterwards George R R Martin himself said it was his idea in the first place, and that it is canon to the books. So while yes, not everything in the show is accurate to the canon Song of Ice and Fire, Aegons prophecy being passed through the heirs IS canon.
In the book Daeny hears Rhaegar refer to his son Aegon as the Prince That Was Promised and the Song of Ice and Fire. This strongly suggests that Rhaenyra passed the prophecy down to Aegon III and it continued to be passed down the line through Aerys.
@Josh Miller not only does that quote not disprove what I said but a later quote of his that doesn’t contradict that quote In terms of House of the Dragon, Martin pointed out that the question of "canon" was central to the book it's based on, Fire & Blood. It's an "imaginary history book" written from the perspective of a Westerosi scholar, and it often cites contradictory in-world sources for its own events, leaving readers uncertain what to believe. However, the TV show does not have that unreliable narrator.You should probably have kept reading the article you just cited instead of stopping the moment you found something that you THINK supports your argument.
@Myles He never said anything of the sort: "We have two canons. We have the show canon, the Game of Thrones canon. And we have the Song of Ice and Fire canon," Martin said simply. "And in the book canon, obviously, still writing The Winds of Winter, I'm sure you all know that, and then there's another book beyond that. And as I write them, and I've said this in a previous blog post, I always knew that things were gonna be different, but as I'm writing, as the stories are coming alive, and the characters are coming alive, taking me further and further away from the show. So there's gonna be some very considerable differences, and the book canon is gonna be quite different from the show canon as we get deeper into it."They are two distinct versions
@Josh Miller the shows are lore canon. GRRM said the books are written from the perspective of a Maestor writing about events while the show is really what happened
If Egg hadn’t misinterpreted the prophecy and burned it all down (in theory), then the Daenerys story line never would have happened like that. So ultimately his misunderstanding was key to Daenerys’ dragons.
one often meets his destiny on the road he takes to avoid it
Or it was the Three-Eyed-Raven playing his centuries long chess game to prepare Westeros for the long winter (my theory)
@Hope tbf thi, it was Jon and Tyrion's idea, worst mistake ever, to go getva white walker for cersei... Jon aint very bright is he
@Hope In the books, there was a magic horn that could break the magic of The Wall (or tame dragons?). I don't remember, read it years ago. And IIRC Victarion Greyjoy somehow tamed a dragon or went on a quest to do so. There's A LOT more important characters in the books and it gets so complicated, that probably GRRM couldn't untangle it all to make sense so we probably won't have the last two books : P The show merged some characters together and simplified some storylines. Changed some important events too.
But if she hadn’t hatched her dragons, the night king never would have gotten a dragon to break the wall? If we believe that the show storyline is true(ish)
Aside from frustrating his plans, Egg's kids really made sure that the Targaryens were very isolated from alliances. The only familial connection they did have, Rhaelle birthing Steffon Baratheon and her grandkids being cousins to Rhaegar, Viserys, and Dany, ended up siding against them in the war. Had all the betrothals gone through, the realm would have been much more stable and much more Targaryen-aligned. Rhaegar probably could have overthrown his dad easier.
@Phrophetsam what you said doesn't contradict what I've said
@marcus Gibson` He never met Lyanna before the tournament. He fell in "love" after catching her as the Knight of the Laughing Tree. Rhaegar attended the Tournament at Harrenhall because he wanted to gather support alongst the lords against his father but Varys found out and insisted that Aerys attend.
He was trying to ally the north with the South he met lyyana learned of Lord starks southerns ambitions and was going to ask his permission to marry llyana but shit got fucked up
Rheagar as Azor Ahai while Jon and Dany are Lightbringer and Lyanna as Nyssa Nyssa is a theory Ive never thought about, but its so smart in a typical GRRM way - giving the whole setup for the story a even deeper meaning, by making the Azor Ahai an already dead person
That has always made the most sense to me. Or at least Rhaegar is azor ahai, Lyanna Nyssa Nyssa and Jon is Lightbringer... Lyanna being killed at childbirth is a close enough connection to the metaphor of being stabbed = sex/conception... it literally says he "thrusted" the sword... weird verbage for stabbing.
In the books Daenerys rises from the fire with her hair burned away. Egg may have seen the bald Daenerys in a vision and mistaken her for himself as a young bald prince.
@Darth Vader that's what I thought little bitch. Put your muzzle on.
@Darth Vader you are the one getting your panties in a twist, weirdo. stay upset, and honk your clown nose elsewhere lmao. 🤡🤡🤡
@person humansby how is acknowledging that he wrote asoiaf simping? That literally makes no sense and you know GRRM isnt the only author to take a long time to write books it happens GRRM has always been a slow writer and now he is a slow writer on top of writing a really complex world. Don't get your panties in a twist because I acknowledged that an author wrote a book series grow up.
@Darth Vader this is the dude that wrote most of asoiaf, and then dipped for like 10 years, dont simp to me lol.
@person humansby This is the dude that wrote asoiaf if anything he is just staying on his toes
Gotta say the reveal in HotD that ASOIaF is a Targaryen oral tradition really adds a lot to the motivation of a lot of these “mad kings” each one crumbling under the weight of this apocalypse that may fall on their shoulders. It took a Targaryen who was not aware of the burden to succeed in the end too. So good.
@Josh Miller Except it kinda is.
i'm thinking Aegon's secret may die with Rhaenyra during the events of HotD, or perhaps afterwards slowly along with the dragons (depending on who she tells, who they tell, etc.) after a civil war, it very well may be lost or not believed at some point. all it would take is one Targaryen down the line to scoff at it like it's a fairytale or to die without passing it on to someone. then it is entirely reliant on someone holding the Valyrian dagger in the flames AND interpreting the prophecy correctly (which we see is not reliable in this great video).
@biggrocc19 Yeah its not really book canon. At least not yet.
Not so sure you can call it a "reveal" so much as an "artistic liberty"
I think the reason the Wild Fire went out of control was because the dragons actually hatched. According to the alchemist, Wild Fire is more potent when dragons exist.
@Bloodraven im sure u had nothing to do with it bloodraven
@Betsy Romero the dragons got buried prolly. Dang thats sad
But then again fire cannot kill dragons and if they did hatchet what happened to them? I don't think he said that Summerhall fell, just burned. Maybe if there was sand then the dragons got buried.
The idea of a land where people have visions that come from different points in time, and always misinterpreting them is so tragic.
I personally love and support Joe magician’s theory. However, I always thought it would be really interesting if what ever egg did actually did work, and a dragon hatched. And right after is when the terrible accident occurred, and whatever method was used got out of control killing everyone including the dragon. Or something like that. I have no proof of this, just think it would be an interesting twist on things if what ever they did actually worked.
So this video is awesome, thanks for all the work that went into it. My theory on Summerhall is that Aegon had a vision that drove him to want to use the pyromancers to sacrifice Rhaegar in a fire while he was still in the womb. Dunk saves them and the rest is history until 40 odd years later when Daenerys awakens the dragons with a fire, some magic and her unborn baby as sacrifice. Basically Aegon's vision on how to awaken the dragons was correct but he had the wrong generation of Targaryens.
@Kushagra Agrawal I am only referring to Aegon wanting to reawaken dragons, not fulfill tpwwp necessarily.
but if Aegon did successfully sacrifice Rhaegar then Rhaella would be rendered infertile like Daenerys was; so Aerys wouldn't have been able to have more children by her.
It is said that Rhaegar used to visit the Ghost of Highheart and sing her "Jenny of Oldstones" whilst she wept. He used to visit Summerhall often and was obsessed with the prophecy of Azor Ahai too. He too had dreams and visions of dragons and thought dragons and Azor Ahai were linked so this makes sense.
A feast for crows is my favourite book of all time partially for the “prophecy will bite your prick off every time” line, and just for the absolutely beautiful character/world building.
It was boring, only thing memorable was the King’s moot
Really? Well, while I find it the weakest, that's awesome you find it the best. And there are some excellent ideas and stories in AFFC but I dunno, ADWD fulfilled my hunger for the Northern story and Stannis Baratheon which AFFC did not
It’s easily the weakest, least interesting for me and felt like mostly filler but opinions and that
I think its the weakest in the series, still great though
I can so imagine Dunk carrying the princess to safety to give birth outside the burning castle, then turning around and saying, "I may be back, I may not. Either way, His Majesty is getting a clout in the ear." Then he dives back into the flames to slap Egg silly one last time.
The tale of Dunk & Egg really makes the tragedy of Summerhall even harsher since we grew to know and like Dunk and Egg personally instead of seeing them as historical figures.
@I Ditarod well, Dunk's parents are completely unknown. So, actually no, but there is a possibility 😁
@Konstantin Yagodin so not a Targaryen
@I Ditarod Ser Duncan the Tall, a lifelong friend and Lord Commander of the Kingsguard of Aegon V the Unlikely. The main character of "A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms"
@Raymond Reviews To be fair we almost ain't got shit yet between the Second Blackfire Rebellion and Summerhall, just the Egg's chapter in WoIaF. It's waaaaay too few
@G filmer Two
Season 8 may have dissapointed many, but Alt Shift X never does.
If House of the Dragon is going to continue beyond the Dance, I think this tragedy plus a time jump to Robert's Rebellion is the perfect final season for the show. It would tie back with what we learned at the beginning of the series with Viserys obsession about Aegon's and his own dreams and the prophecy, and it gives us the perfect set-up for Aerys and Rhaegar and everything that ensues because of the Mad King and Rhaegar's plans. It kind of ends the series off perfectly leading into Game of Thrones. Egg's ambitions, the Mad King's tyranny, and the rebellion is the final time the House of the Dragon tore itself apart with ambitions gone awry and with a terrible king.
It's possible that every Targaryen in fact has metaphorical and prophetic dreams during their lifespan. Some choose to act on realising these dreams while others dismiss them. That's something worth thinking about.
One could argue prophetic dreams are similar to severe anxiety for a real world comparison. People become obsessive on a few specific things and their fear overwhelms them.
Thats something I too belive. It explains "the Targ madness" pretty well. Many of them might have seen some dreams of future they misunderstood and did some wacky hijinks trying to follow or escape.
I like how part of the theory is Aegon being so disappointed and angry with his kids he straight up tries to burn them to death.
I really like how Alt Shift X doesn’t just propose wild theories, he also shows what would make sense from a story perspective
Unlike the other crackpot theorists *cough* Preston *cough*
Gasoline dosen't melt concrete
But he does tho
He does, and he's fair, but not infallible. While the ToS is the culmination of Dunk and Egg's arc, it's ALSO part of the larger arc of the Targaryen family. All that melodrama bt Dunk and Egg at the precipice can happen, without them knowing the old anti-dragon, pro-Andal, pro-medieval conspiracies are really to blame
@Zayne Isgett but what if it was just still some mystery person using Ser Pounce as a tool, they were torturing him with a laser pointer, making him run all around the room until he just knocked the can of gasoline over.
GRRM: All this prophecy and intermingling plots that are downright impossible to read correctly to determine who will rid the world of the WalkersD&D: Nah bro, just have Arya teleport and stick a guy with a dagger lmao
My favourite summerhall theory: everything went terribly RIGHT and they hatched an egg, but the dragon was warped and mutated because it wasn't the foretold time for dragons to re-appear, and it burned the building killing most of the Targ's, so Dunk had to kick it to death, then Egg wen't mad and tried to stop Dunk to save the dragon, and so Dunk had to put Egg down.
Dunk gave 'em a clout on the ear. Egg and the dragon
I think “only death can pay for life.a great gift requires a great sacrifice” is why danny’s, johns and tyrions mothers all died giving them birth. I think their mothers is the sacrifice they needed to pay for the ability to be able to ride dragons. Yes I think Tyrion will get to ride a dragon at some point. So much is made of how much he loves dragons, had always wanted a dragon or see a dragon etc. I believe he will actually get to ride one. The three mothers dying giving the 3 main characters birth is not coincidence. I think the “Tyrion is a Targaryen conceived via his mother being raped by the mad king” theory very well could be true.it would make sense.Everything grr rights has a reason even if we don’t realise it.
I read "A Knight of The Seven Kingdoms", loved Dunk and Egg and went on the internet to search more about them and saw the story of the tragedy of Summerhall and got so sad.
To be honest, I really hope that the story of why summerhall remains mystery, since all the possibilities are so much more powerful than any written put story can ever be.
If Targaryens constantly misinterpret their dreams, then Dany is doomed...Also, I think Egg would have succeeded but during his time, magic wasnt as powerful.
they never even talked about what dany saw in quarth after season 2 .😡
Dany probably saw the most weird shit in her dreams and "dreams" (in Qarth) than all of other Targs combined, so she hasn't begun to believe in that shit literally, at least yet
Of course she is doomed. She always meant to be tragic hero/villan just TV Show riddiculusly butchered her character to simple "mad daughter of mad father"
"Summerhall" looks suspiciously similar to Moritzburg Castle.For those who don't know, Moritzburg Castle is in the town of the same name, Moritzburg, which is in the vicinity of Dresden, and Dresden is a city in Germany.
@ANSELAbits x0b001 bruh lol
My grandpa dropped bombs on dresden.
7:59 to add to this, two deaths (Drogo and Mirri Maz duur) pay for two dragons. But Dany walks into the fire herself, perhaps ready to die. This would give the third and final life despite Dany not dying. Ofc GRRM wouldnt kill off dany right there and she survives, but perhaps this could also mean that willingness to sacrifice yourself has certain power as well.
@Josh Jackson 🤣 you killed me there! Poor horse
@Brave and Blessed I don't think one sacrifice is good for two miracles? That hole shebang is a "special event", GRRM said I think. Dany('s skin) is untouched by fire here, but she can get burned later in the storyBut don't forget the horse! 🤣 that's a life
@Pedro Lucas viserys was dead way before the dragons were born
@Brave and Blessed Maybe Viserys, Drogo and Rhaego were the sacrifices to wake the dragons from stone, Mirri's burning only maked the hatching!
Drogo was already dead, can that count as a sacrifice? And if the answer is yes, then how about baby Rhaego, he could be the 3rd sacrifice, after all he did die as a sacrifice to save his father.
God seeing Egg go from a good little squire to a ruthless king willing to kill his children would be such a horrifying arc to read.
Not as horrifying as…”other people” in the books
@jlshel42 He has. Don't know how many times "off-screen", and at least one time is even in the book, in the second tale if I'm not mistaken. And he would have given him one more in that sept in the third one definitely, if not for Lord Butterwell being nearby, scared shitless by the vicinity of his prince and praying
See, I'm not convinced that he knew what he would unleash. He might honestly have thought that he could control the fire or that the dragon(s) would consume it. Or he could have gone guano loco, I'm not sure GRRM will ever tell us.
Exactly my thoughts
But very interesting one though
I wish you could make more videos about so many dark and mysterious ancient places like Asshai, The Shadow Lands, Stygai, The Heart of Winter, Valyria, Sothoryos, Ulthos, The Five Forts, The Great Empire of the Dawn, The Empire of Yi-Ti...
He covers most of these places in his video explaining the East
The difference between Aegon's Summerhall and Dany's Pyre for Drogo could easily be that Dany didn't do it trying to make a prophecy come true. Doesn't that sound more like a prophecy coming true, than it did when someone tried to jam all the pieces into the puzzle?
The idea that Egg went off his rocker and was intending to sacrifice Rhaella and Rhaegar and was thwarted by Dunk is damn cold but I can see that being a storyline because Egg mad with power in a moment of weakness abandons all decency in his quest for power and Dunk betrays him, only to return to his side and die with him in flames as penance for being unable (morally) to protect his king.
I'm sure other people have pointed this out but I just realized this, aegon wanted to bring Justice and peace to the whole realm and he tried to get dragons. it ended up killing him. now Daenerys has dragons and is trying to bring Justice and peace to the realm... so will it kill her?
The fire at Summerhall actually started in the kitchen when some bread was left in the oven too long. There is substantial evidence that points to the cook responsible being Hot Pie's grandfather.
I love your videos! They keep my love for this series alive after I was traumatized by Season 8 of Game of Thrones, the “Summerhall” of the TV series.
I'd like to think that Egg had discovered the secret and was about to bring dragons back to the world, but outside forces sabotaged him at the last minute. Then Dany fulfilled the destiny of their line and succeeded all those years later.
I actually wonder if The Mad King saying "burn them all!" and being paranoid wasn't because of dragons but he was having dreams of the dead coming to get him, so he stored up all around him wildfire in case everyone in the kingdom "turns" on him. I only say that cuz its the one weakness of the wights.
As someone who hasn't read the books, hearing that dragons were supposed to save the kingdom makes the ending of the series even worse...
Summerhall is one of the more fascinating, unanswered questions in Game of Thrones mythos. I've heard a number of these theories, but not all of them, so thanks for putting it all together - great video!
The reason the 3 eggs didnt hatch when Aegon 5 "egg" burned everyone in summerhall is maybe because dunk saved rhaegar and his mother. So there wasnt really a sacrifice but suicide killing. sounds crazy but maybe dunk made it not hatch by saving Rhaegar.
I feel like they succeeded in hatching an egg at Summerhall, but it was deformed and crazy (which happens) and it went crazy with it's fire and died with everyone else.
“Or maybe it was Daario disguised as Ser Pounce with a book of matches and a can of gasoline.” Best theory ever.
Yeah, imagine a cat strapped with a canister of gasoline on the back walking around in Valyria 'watering' the plants. Ser Pounce: "The time of dragons is over. The time of the cats has come!"
@Da Nameless Tanker ohnooo, can you tell me or do I have to look it up
Master and Margarita is calling. It wants its gasoline can-toting demon cat back.
@Francesca Patti No they haven't had that level of fantasy neither
Dario probably wasn't even born yet unless he's one of those mythical ageless creatures
Crastor the wildling is in his late 50’s in the books, assuming he’s always been giving his children to the white walkers, and there is no mention of anyone one else doing this, it means the white walkers awoke and began filling out there ranks at least 30 years prior. The only significant and possibly magical event that happened around that time was Summerhall. Is it possible that Summerhall was somehow that catalyst that moved the Whitewalkers into action.
So when Aegon either attempted to burn his family or simply conducted the ritual to wake dragons, he technically did; Rhaegar Targaryen was born on that day.
Can't wait for Blood and Fire part 2. Unlike ASOIAF I think he will actually give us B&FII (pretty sure Winds will come at some point, but not hopeful for anything else). I put off Part 1 because I was never very interested in the Targaryans, but when I finally got around to reading it, the book won me over and left me wanting more.
This was wild!! Poor Egg. He used to be so pure. Now look what he did--accident or no accident.But those theories you made at the end just got progressively crazier and crazier, it was funny. XD
Can't believe Ser Pounce really committed regicide and killed a generation of Targaryens just so his boi Tommen could be King.
Very loyal cat. More loyal than Puss in Boots.
Ser Pounce might be a cat but he is a real dog
@D'Alton But it ain't damnable heresy, so I guess I could be doing worse!
@Juniper Rodley What you say is heresy...
That fcking cat!
As a big fan of ASoIaF, even I learned some interesting details from this video. For example that dream about Dunk and Egg being suffocated in sand and sand being used by pyromancers as a safety measure while concocting wildfire. I also especially like JoeMagician's theory about Egg seeing a vision of Daenerys' funeral pyre and - as many others in the story - misinterpreting it completely.
Another great video sir, well done!There is however one thing I can’t shake from my mind - the idea of Egg going totally mad and killing his own family. I think GRRM is keeping the details hush hush but there are a couple of factors that came to my mind when I first heard Joe Magician say this theory. -Dany’s Eggs were stone, what if the blood magic was to bring them back from that.-Do we even know if Egg and his siblings’ eggs were stone? Because if so then maybe blood magic was the missing link that none of them ever considered, hence their failure.-Eggs hatched in the crib with Targ children. Maybe there’s a magical reason why that stopped during Aegon III’s reign?-Eggs seemed to hatch on Dragonstone naturally during the early Targ Dynasty. Maybe the heat from the Dragonmont had something to do with hatching that they missed?-if it was always a blood sacrifice thing surely it would’ve been noted by the maesters? Like a rumour against Maegor or Aegon IV?
This video is amazing. Since the day I read the stories about Dunk and Egg, I was trying to understand what happened to them, it's so sad. I think it was the same that Jaime had to do, become a kingslayer to save his innocent newborn Rhaegar, because a true Knight will only fight for the innocent, because it's better to see a friend die than become a monster, Dunk sacrifices himself to save Egg's faith, to save his friend from himself.
I love how ASoIaF tackles prophecies. In most stories that implement them prophecies are boring and usually just serve as exposition. In the world of ASoIaF, on the other hand, they are cryptic and symbolic dreams. It's almost impossible to understand their true meaning. And even if you do you can't be sure they aren't an attempt by someone to manipulate the characters. This makes prophecies unreliable and somewhat scary which adds to the atmosphere of the books.
"A cheeky bit of regicide to kick their lifelong alliance."This one made me laugh out loud ngl.
Perhaps its not the best way to put it, but here goes.Rhaegar could have been Azor Ahai, with Lyanna being his NIssa Nissa. Technically he did... stick his sword into her. And she does end up dying, bringing forth into the world a child of Ice and Fire, a child born with the blood of old Valyria, connected to dragons and fire, as well as the blood of the First Men, connected to warging and greenseeing. Jon Snow (Aegon Targaryen) could be Lightbringer himself.
This is what really hooks me to the saga. I'm not a fan of Targaryen history like others, but one hidden history ties so well with current events I get crazy
Man I thought Euron Greyjoy was bad for sacrificing a few of his family members on a boat but imagine your cousin killing your entire family via arson during thanksgiving... almost worst than Euron which isn't an easy accomplishment
I think it's absolutely fantastic how well built the world of A Song of Ice and Fire is. I mean, we can literally have thousands of hours of discussion about a world and stories made up by one old guy's head. And the story isn't bad, it's good and well written and can be worked through dozens of times without becoming uninteresting. That's prlly also the reason for why Winds of Winter is taking forever. Worth it tho ngl.
Yeah, 'cause Martin wrote the beginning and somewhat a half of what's going on "now" (as for the Dunk and Egg tales, only the quarter of) but no conclusion at all to this point, neither for ASoIaF, nor for D&E.
@Liam Powell Somebody else will finish either TWOW or ADOS, even if TWOW came out today, it'd be questionable if ADOS would ever be finished.
Lol you still think we’ll get Winds of Winter? Maybe but I doubt it at this point, I don’t care how supposedly complex (it’s not *that* intricate) and dense the story after Dance is, it doesn’t take over 10 fucking years to finish a book. We’re never getting Dream either, George will definitely die before that’s released. The notes will probably be available to everyone post-mortem.
@Ben Schmitt I write fiction (never published it; never tried) and I've been deeply into storytelling, narrative, the craft of writing and creating fiction since I was a boy. I spent so much time daydreaming, working the details of the short stories and novels I've written that I have plots, characters, lore, specific scenes, themes, and much more in my head in migraine-inducing detail for my fiction. Currently, that's at about 3 dozen short stories (about 12 written) as well as9 or 10 novels, depending on how you count it (have finished only one, but have made significant progress on 4 more--from about 100 pages of text and 250 pages of notes for the least well developed to roughly 600 pages of text and 800 pages of notes for the longest and best developed of the unfinished ones. I'd say this is probably equivalent to 1.5 GRRM novels.When you spend so much time living in these stories like the ghost of an all-powerful god, you can stuff your lobes with a tremendous amount of information and keep it distinct unless you stop thinking about it for a good 5-10 years.I happen to know a lot of SFF authors (even had GRRM as a workshop teacher once) and a lot of them have the same experience.
@RK based on, meaning plucking big events and happenings from history, while completely creating his own characters, setting, personalities, conflicts and motivation along with outcomes. People point to war of the roses and numerous murderous traitor slaughters throughout history and say “he just copied history” while forgetting that every single part of the story minus ideas and set pieces where one party does X to another party, we’re made up by him.It’s just crazy to act like 99% of the story wasn’t wholly original, and pretty great as well.
I would love to know more about Dunk and Eggs relationship after Egg becomes king. Just the tragedy of Egg becoming more consumed with dragons and prophecy infont of Dunk would be heartbreakingly good stuff xx
Hey! Love the videos! So much I didn’t see and it’s making me reread the books again! Thank you!Curious here. What are your (and everyone in the comments) opinions on Val the Wildling Princess and her role?I think she’s going to be more important in the books especially to Jon?
Great video. I loved how you went through all the prophesies. You did a great job sharing this information.
This is exactly why I’m still getting the books, if they ever arrive, even if they parallel the tv show ending. I want to get answers to all these little mysteries. I gotta know who is Quaithe. Is it Shiera? Is it Elissa Farman?
-Growing up among the common folk-Learning from a humble knight-Dreamed of being a Knight and defending the innocents as a child-Growing bitter from the politics, war and rebellion -Desiring peace, freedom, justice and security for his citizens-Grows convinced that absolute military authority and power is necessary-Destroying everything in one big event that killed everyone-Paving the way for a mad tyrant to take over-His descendent rebelled against the mad tyrant with a rebellion ...Egg sounds an awful lot like Anakin "murder the youglings" Skywalker
@Charles Ford 🤌
It's like poetry, it rhymes.
@Konstantin Yagodin Of all the comments in this thread, this is one of them!
He needed the military fk you power to deal with his upper crust for the common folk and died in end.
"His descendent rebelled against the mad tyrant with a rebellion" - of all points, this here is just golden!
Very excited to watch your video recaps again whenever the prequel starts up. Your videos are so well done and full of so many details. Love them.
20:24 maybe that’s where Rhaegar learned the “dragon must have 3 heads” prophecy, from the woods witch at Summerhall when he turned up to play his harp
George is an absolutely incredible writer, he's a literal wizard with a typewriter, but the dude is so damn slow! At least, he is now. Winds of Winter is likely going to be a very convoluted (in a good way) book.
The rationale for this supposed sacrifice stumps me because there doesn't seem to be any evidence of any cataclysm for the Targaryens or Westeros as far as Egg's perspective is concerned. Actually destroying half his family to ensure that some unclear prophecy is fulfilled is just incredibly selfish and foolish.
i like your theory about Dunk and Egg having a confrontation at summerhall: Dunk: you cant kill innocentsEgg: I need dragons!Dunk: you were supposed to bring balance to the force, not leave it in darknessEgg: wait, what?Dunk: what?
@Arvind Raghavan Duncan had natural high ground :D
Fuck star wars gtfo here
@G L then my job is done.
I’m a year late to this but you just made me spit water out of my nose.
I always loved how Robert Baratheon called the Targaryens "dragon spawn" when he, himself, was literally just that, and the Baratheon family as a whole was started by Aegon's bastard half-brother Orys Baratheon. What a fool Robert was. Right in his rage about thinking his wife was kidnapped and raped, but foolish to so easily throw away his own Valyrian ancestry. The Baratheon family was literally the Blood of Old Valyria. I don't like how the original show never touched on that. The OG show just made it seem like the Baratheon were Andals.
I like to imagine there’s a symmetry to once-bald Targ Egg’s death by fire when trying to birth a literal dragon and bald Targ bastard Varys’s death by fire in trying to birth a political dragon.
I’d love to watch a video about the war brewing in Essos during Dance of Dragons. There are a lot of references to it during Tyrion and Daenerys’s chapters, but we never really get a real explanation. With your repute, I think you’d do a great job going in depth on the topic.
I love the videos whole lot better now that it focuses completely on books rather than show. I'd really rather know more about book theories and hints and rich history and see book fanart than show references. People tend to say that s8 was bad but the truth is after season 4 everything in the show went to hell and there is really nothing to discuss about the show except how it should've been. The show is to be forgotten. Now the books... that is what I'm here for.
I really like the latter theory of Dunk having to kill Egg in that last scenario inside Summerhall. It just fits with GRRM's themes of tragic bittersweet endings. It was never about black and white with GRRM, just like life he wanted to reflect a lot of grey in his story telling.
ASX's videos are so high quality my god, also goes to show how much effort GRRM puts in his writing, so many plausible and interesting possibilities
if GRRM made a summerhall shortstory capper for Dunk and Eggs whole story I would actually be so suprised and stoked (Dunk the lunk thick as a castle wall not realising Eggs true nature until its too late would be amazing)but like everyone I just want Winds to get finished (Im convinced he will turn it into a 2 parter)
This is my favorite channel by far. I live and breathe your ASOIAF theory videos. They are really well made and narrated. Looking forward to many, many more! Amazing job mate.
I like the idea that Ser Duncan the tall chose to save Rhaella and Rhaegar first and then still went back in to try and save egg, and dying together.
I agree. Although the theory where Egg goes mad (like his grandson) and does some f***d up things which lead to his own death by Dunk also makes sense (surely, after Dunk saves Rhaella and Rhaegar).
If GrrM is not already working on a Dream of Spring and simply holding back Twow because he wants to be sure that he has everything in line, everyone where he wants them, with plots and character arcs that make sense. I honestly naively believe or hope this is true, because of GrrM's gardener type approach to writing this could be the case, where holding back twow is logical and necessary. If not, I really desperately hope that in his secluded cabin, he pounded out some Dunk and Egg Novellas at the very least. The Fans, and even more so the true Fans have been completely abused by Dan and Dave and we really truly need some hardcover redemption.
If you are not already on George's payroll, you should be for keeping people interested in the books. Great video as always.
4:12 it would be an interesting turn of events if all these things the Targaryen’s did to try and awaken the dragon eggs actually worked it just took till the time of Danny for it to actually kick in, it was the same clutch of eggs that had been prayed over and had spells cast upon and had consumed the life’s of countless people and without all the stuff happening in the past Danny’s bonfire would also have failed also.
Nah the main reason the egg's hatched was because magic was returning back to the world and a blood sacrifice of mirri maz durr and drogo was enough to hatch them
I'm 100% behind the theory that the Maesters were behind Summerhall plus it was also suspicious that only one of Eggs sons survived so he may have been in league with them aswell
Loved this video. I wanted to post another analysis of the Maelys the Monstrous and the ninepenny kings. This post covers the whole Blackfyre reign, but it really dives into Maelys’ relationship with his family which isn’t usually always accurately portrayed if the theory is correct. Let me know what you think. sweeticeandfiresunray.com/tag/maelys-blackfyre/
i would love to see you talk about the targaryen kings... their life, i;ve seen on other channels this but i would love to see your take on it
Love how you spend so much time cultivating this emotionally compelling possibility, and then go "or it could be three other things, who knows!"Possibly your best video.P.s. just caught that Lucas reference in the captions ;)
A video of you ranking all the Targaryen kings from worst to best would be awesome
I really like the idea that Egg saw Daenerys hatching dragon eggs but thought it all applied to himself
@Kevin Mendoza he wont finish anything
This is what a world of ice and fire implies happened . But if I’m being honestly we will never actually find out bc ggrm will never finish the last Duncan book .
@Mistonklelees or maybe he thought it was Rhaella
He probably thought bald Daenerys was himself.
I just realized Aegon could've just held the party for his granddaughter's pregnancy at Dragonstone and brought the eggs up to the volcano with the Duncans, and little Jaehaerys. He could've become the first Targaryen king to ride a dragon after about a decade, with his sons and grandson beside him, carrying his hatchling around on his shoulder to show that dragons lived in Westeros once again. With dragons beside them, the Blackfyres would think twice before invading, even if they're tiny, not to mention lords would think twice before questioning his methods, as they don't want another Harrenhal.
Always the best content, love how you explain things.
This is clearly one of the best GOT channels. But I really get dizzy trying to distinguish books from show. It's my main problem with almost everything I watch on X-vid, or blogs I read. I am almost done with my second reading of the five books. Hoping for 6 & 7 soon. I struggle at times with ,"did that actually happen in the books"?
Is it just me, or are all of these prophecy-loving folks consistently missing the mark by an entire generation? They don't seem to notice that prophets see visions about what will be for others, not what will be for them. It sorta fits in with GRRM's inversion of classic, Tolkien-esque fantasy tales where the good guys are all the heroes that were prophesized to save the world: Prophesies are cool, but the real world is always slightly off. It's why Rhaegar was born a dragon amid smoke and salt, but died before he could become Azhor Ahai (and he would have been too old to fight an army of white walkers anyway). Or how Rhaego would have been the Prince That Was Promised for Essos (sorry, I am blanking on the name) but he was killed by a witch and his mom's inability to follow directions. Summerhall feels like a Targaryen trying to force a prophecy to happen sooner than it was supposed to.It's also possible I'm way, way off. Another great video, though.
Based on the lyrics, I always assumed Jenny survived the fire and wasted away at Summerhall in her grief
Oldstones was the ruined seat of River kings of Old so it's unclear.
I think she had children with Duncan King of Fireflies, but hidden them away.
@Jimbo Slice Danced herself right off a tower
@Jimbo Slice I can see that too! It's not a song of happiness for sure
Oh... uh... I always assumed the song implied Jenny couldn't deal with the loss at Summerhall and committed suicide there...
Crazy to think that less than 100 years seperate Summerhall and War of The Five Kings. Just goes to show how rich and indepth history can be, and what has been lost in our own history.
21:10 I think it's also interesting to note about the maesters that we KNOW they didn't actually cause the extinction of literal dragons, that was the Targaryen's civil war, so possibly that's another instance of them using "dragons" in place of Targaryens, and they DID cause the extinction of those, or at least push them a lot closer to it.
I love your videos. You have made me want to read the books. In this case however, Are you not telling the story in such a way that a literal thinking person could misinterpret that the prophetic dreams are the problem, when actually it is taking them literally and personalizing them that is the problem? Power is never the problem; it is person who weilds it. In this case, a bunch of power hungry idiots who were not getting the proper intellectual and spiritual training to properly interpret prophetic dreams is the problem.
Something that you didn't mention but that is probably truth is that Coldhands' true identity is Dunk revived. I can clearly see Dunk kill his best friend Egg to save him from pain, and then see him sacrifice himself for Rhaella and Rhaegar, all of this leaving him almost dead.Then the Ghost of High Heart taking the body of a dying Dunk, and somehow bringing him back to life by mistake she wanted Jenny and _hers_ Duncan). I don't think Jenny died in the fire, but maybe shortly after the incident out of sadness. Then this new revived Dunk, reminiscent of his guilt for killing the King, goes into exile in the north (that he visited in the past before Summerhall's fire) ... and today we would know him as a mysterious figure that we all know as Colhands, a tall, muscular living-old corpse , whose characteristics match those of the humble knight Duncan the Tall, Knight of Royal Guard.
A couple of months ago I finally started reading the main books. So far I've loved them to bits, and now I'm terrified George Martin won't get around to finishing them in time.