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House of the Dragon S1E05 live Q&A discussion

  • Published on Sep 17, 2022
  • Discussing House of the Dragon Episode 5!
    This stream has no spoilers for House of the Dragon beyond S1E05. It does have spoilers for the original Game of Thrones show.
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Comments • 2 397

  • Honored Madman
    Honored Madman 2 months ago +2604

    I like how lyonel gave harwin a nod and he went terminator mode and got rhaenyra out of there.

    • Gerico Adrian Castillo
      Gerico Adrian Castillo 2 months ago +1

      @All The Artsy but it's not like that.
      Arthur Dayne was the best and strongest knight of his time, he defeated the Smiling Knight whl wad described as the strongest man in the realm and is compared to Gregor Clegane, and Arthur was not described as a mass of muscles.
      Barristan Selmy wasn't described as a mass of muscles either, he was too considered one of the strongest warrior of his time, he defeated Maelys the Monster, who was indeed a mass of muscles.
      Neither are Jaime Lannister or the Tyrell brothers. Who are described to be in the category of the strongest warrios of the current time.
      Even Sandor Clegane, probably who is physically the strongest man together with the Mountain isn't a mass of muscles, though he is big as fuck and is ripped.
      Most of the strongest men or the best warriors in ASOIAF aren't described as bigger than most. The fact that those that are have their a.k.a. related to being massive are the exception.
      So Harwin not being portrayed as a bodybuilder from the 80s isn't bad at all, in any case, it helps the inmersion and what we really need to now if anyone is indeed the strongest man is that he can show it. The same way we saw the Blackwood kid defeat the Bracken dude.
      Being taller and buffier isn't all in terms of strenght or ability to be called Breakbones, so it is coherent

    • Captain Blighe
      Captain Blighe 2 months ago

      “Alright boy, go break some bones”

    • Angeal zeal
      Angeal zeal 2 months ago

      That dude is freakishly strong

    • Ariel Hunt
      Ariel Hunt 2 months ago +3

      Harwin the real MVP. He protects his princess, doesn’t snitch on her, and is totally fine with being her on-call baby daddy unlike Cristin.

    • Jacob
      Jacob 2 months ago +1

      @Poop McGee IRL, people gst confused, things take time to process. They had no view of anything going on. I thought it was very accurate to real life, and looked like what would happen.

  • Easily Impressed Old Man
    Easily Impressed Old Man 2 months ago +2141

    I wanted Robert Baratheon to appear at the end and shout "STOP THIS MADNESS IN THE NAME OF YOUR KING"

    • Sergio Mendoza
      Sergio Mendoza Month ago

      Fr! I was honestly shocked how long it went on without Viserys or anyone doing anything.

    • Steven Festa
      Steven Festa Month ago


    • The Detail Did It Network
      The Detail Did It Network 2 months ago


    • Wash my soul with words
      Wash my soul with words 2 months ago

      RB Although a drunk and not the best king, still had balls like watermelons & was a fierce fighter back in the day.

    • Valkyrie
      Valkyrie 2 months ago

      Same!! First thing that came on my mind

  • Ilia Ponomarev
    Ilia Ponomarev 2 months ago +1053

    I kinda liked how after this "So are their children gonna be Velaryons or Targaryens?" conversation Corlys asks Rhaenys something along the lines of "Did I go too far?". So it's not like he is all powerful, he is also kinda unsure of the limits he can push.
    I also kinda liked this "You are putting our kid in danger" attitude from Rhaenys.

    • Sergio Mendoza
      Sergio Mendoza Month ago

      Rhaeyns is kinda a hypocrite tho. She still proposed Laena to Viserys as a possible match. And she still willingly made the match between Laenor and Rhaenyra. So she’s still playing the game, whether she likes it or not she’s just as invested as all the other families. And she should definitely know by now that the game is dangerous, she shouldn’t have put her kids forward as matches for the royal family if she didn’t want them to die or have them be in danger.

    • Gerico Adrian Castillo
      Gerico Adrian Castillo 2 months ago

      @F Flanman what morality? Lmao, they tried to sell her daugther to Viserys too

    • ARCtrooperblueleader
      ARCtrooperblueleader 2 months ago +1

      I agree and I must say that they are the most normal couple in the GoT universe so far.

    • GoatSkin
      GoatSkin 2 months ago

      @Hypothalapotamus Public executing your siblings isn't going to go over well.

    • peen
      peen 2 months ago

      @FRED HAMPTON IS MY HERO that straight up sounds like something a 12 year old would say lmao

  • Benjamin Lee
    Benjamin Lee 2 months ago +1918

    I gotta say, people ain't mentioning it, but the short time in which Otto was on screen this episode he was amazing. The mixture of a stern, yet distant father, alongside the ultimate concern and love he has as a father for his daughter was brilliantly expressed by the actor.

    • JD Holl
      JD Holl 2 months ago


    • Adam
      Adam 2 months ago +1

      He doesn’t give a damn about Alicent dude

    • ARCtrooperblueleader
      ARCtrooperblueleader 2 months ago +1

      It was a great scene. Good on you for pointing it out.

    • High Jinx
      High Jinx 2 months ago

      @Greywolf757 yeah and Rhaenyra could’ve just had a normal familial relationship with her uncle too but we see how that’s gonna turn out. Forgive me for being suspicious. Neither this show or Game of Thrones have too many boundaries they won’t cross.

    • Greywolf757
      Greywolf757 2 months ago +1

      @High Jinx Fathers and daughters can love each other without it being sexual. I think you just interpreted normal familial love as sexual.

  • the otaku prince
    the otaku prince 2 months ago +611

    Every single time there's a wedding I always think about how "a wedding with less than three deaths is considered a dull affair"

    • ARCtrooperblueleader
      ARCtrooperblueleader 2 months ago


    • peen
      peen 2 months ago +1

      @Matthew Sechler chalk it up to that targ blood I guess. I was a bit surprised too to see him in the preview. Also agree more paddy isn’t a bad thing so I’m not complaining

    • Matthew Sechler
      Matthew Sechler 2 months ago +3

      @montana bnana you’re correct. I did not watch the trailers for the next episode. I interpreted the collapse as death, premature of me. I’m happy to see more Paddy, I’m also confused as to how he manages to live apparently much longer.

    • montana bnana
      montana bnana 2 months ago +3

      @Matthew Sechler viserys didn’t die yet tho

    • Micah Maranion
      Micah Maranion 2 months ago +5

      Like a sweet summer child I was blissfully enjoying the scene of Jason Lannister get roasted and condescendingly dismissed by Rhaenyra...and then Daemon walks in. Daemon's chaotic entrance triggered my PTSD. The waning background music, and watching those plotting faces...In that moment I was anxiously reminded that this was a Westerosi wedding.

  • Taytay Queen
    Taytay Queen 2 months ago +785

    Rhaenyra looked scared of Alicent after the stepdaughter line.

    • Jeremy Lang
      Jeremy Lang 2 months ago +2

      @Raysha She shouldn't need to be expected to "have her back". Rhaenyra took advantage of her meekness and blatantly lied to her face on her mother's grave, after Alicent already stuck her neck out for her. Rhaenyra's betrayal of her trust was far worse than properly addressing Rhaenyra her stepdaughter and finally establishing herself with her own agency.

    • Xainfinen
      Xainfinen 2 months ago

      @[redacted] Oh yeah thanks, It was late and didn't pay attention.

    • [redacted]
      [redacted] 2 months ago

      @Xainfinen the phrase you're butchering is "user name checks out"

    • [redacted]
      [redacted] 2 months ago

      @Hristiyan Hristov "nickname" lol

    • Γ Ρ
      Γ Ρ 2 months ago +25

      Rhaenyra is smart enough to read through the lines and realise something is off and most certain she knows of the meaning of the colour green for the hightowers

  • Lytherael
    Lytherael 2 months ago +532

    Poor Laenor, man. That distressed sob when he saw Joffrey's face beaten to a pulp was heartwrenching. He got fucked over for no particular reason and he seemed like such a nice guy.

    • Acromion 11
      Acromion 11 Month ago

      Joffrey was pushing it when approaching a member of kingsguard with that kind of attitude and with those words which could've been interpreted as a threat. I mean who is Joffrey? Noble's son's fuckboy. Not saying he deserved to be unfaced but he was pushing his luck

    • Prot Eus
      Prot Eus 2 months ago +2

      yeah, threatening the sworn protector of the future queen to expose her dirty laundry is "no particular reason" all right

    • Gerico Adrian Castillo
      Gerico Adrian Castillo 2 months ago +1

      @The waltz of the Lizards sweet summer child

    • Kinglyknight
      Kinglyknight 2 months ago

      @FRED HAMPTON IS MY HERO narcissistic future faking??

      FRED HAMPTON IS MY HERO 2 months ago +4

      @mejuliie that was pure narcissistic future faking. Cole is a loser.

  • Mr. Buns
    Mr. Buns 2 months ago +749

    Allicent definitely sent a message. Green dress, showing up late to the wedding, and during the speech too. And the way she addressed Viserys and Rhaenyra.

    • Cosmin Marusca
      Cosmin Marusca 2 months ago

      you said or Allicent or Cercei?

    • Mr. Clymate
      Mr. Clymate 2 months ago +1

      I hope she remembers that fire is hot.

    • Mr. Garak
      Mr. Garak 2 months ago

      She would have had to been waiting outside.

    • Mr. Buns
      Mr. Buns 2 months ago +3

      @Emre Karagoz I doubt it. We are probably going to see dark Alice this use Ser Cole for her own ends.
      I really don't think that it would be in her character to do so.

    • It not me It u
      It not me It u 2 months ago

      I hope we get more trolling from her, she was so meek for most of these episodes

  • H G
    H G 2 months ago +896

    This episode felt like a season finale. Can't wait for next week, so excited to hopefully see Vhagar!

    • hillbillypowpow
      hillbillypowpow 2 months ago

      @Petrila Christian if you were a foreign conquering family, would you be tossing out sapient nuclear arms to your subordinates of constantly wavering loyalties?

    • Nightbeard _
      Nightbeard _ 2 months ago

      @magister343 where you read that Vhagar is bigger than Balerion at the start of the conquest? I'd like to know where you got the source please

    • Comrade Commissar Yuri
      Comrade Commissar Yuri 2 months ago

      It kinda is with the big time jump ahead

    • Rhinocort
      Rhinocort 2 months ago

      @magister343 thanks for the insight!

    • magister343
      magister343 2 months ago

      @Rhinocort The largest and most powerful dragon left in the world. She is bigger now that Balerion was at the start of Aegon's Conquest, bigger than all the other dragons (excluding the feral Cannibal) put together. Laena Velaryon controls her.
      Together with her mother's very fast dragon Meleys and her brother's young dragon Seasmoke, the Velaryons have just as much power as the Targaryens did during the Conquest and could probably conquer Westeros themselves is Coryls decided not to support the Iron Throne anymore.

  • Taytay Queen
    Taytay Queen 2 months ago +828

    I liked whatever time laena got. It showed her being confident and witty, in her conversation with daemon. All you need to introduce Laena really

    • Joe Mama
      Joe Mama 2 months ago +2

      @VikingTheDude Nanna Blondell here you go my friend

    • VikingTheDude
      VikingTheDude 2 months ago +1

      @Joe Mama yeah what’s the actress’s name? 😳

    • Emre Karagoz
      Emre Karagoz 2 months ago

      @sleepbaby17 i guess… of all the characters who all turned in great performances id really have to say she was at the lower end of the spectrum. Who do u think she turned in a better performance than?

    • Spooky Boogie
      Spooky Boogie 2 months ago +4

      I really wish we got to see more of the Velaryons in the previous episodes

    • sleepbaby17
      sleepbaby17 2 months ago +5

      The actresses who have played her were really strong!! For just a few minutes onscreen they gave such memorable performances!

  • Lucia
    Lucia 2 months ago +475

    I feel bad for Lyonel Strong. The look on his face when Daemon was talking about inheriting Runestone was priceless.

    • Genius Art
      Genius Art 2 months ago +4

      @Hypothalapotamus thats so true, the tourney, then he slept with the princess and actually "finished" and now this

    • T Spoon
      T Spoon 2 months ago +31

      @Hypothalapotamus Emoboy Daemon gets MOGGED by the chadlifter Ser Criston Cole

    • Kauswe Kazilimani
      Kauswe Kazilimani 2 months ago +21

      @Hypothalapotamus Daemon just can't be satisfied 😂.

    • Hypothalapotamus
      Hypothalapotamus 2 months ago +144

      I feel bad for Daemon. He went to ruin the wedding, but he got one upped by Ser Criston again.
      Ser Criston 3 - Daemon 0

    • Tess Hagensieker
      Tess Hagensieker 2 months ago +42

      He's thinking it's a problem later Lyonel will have to clean up lol

  • Helcaryón
    Helcaryón 2 months ago +423

    I really like how they're slowly building up Breakbones to be a bigger player in the future. Like we see him in episode 3, and then we have the glimpse in episode 4 in that alley, and then we have the great Terminator moment this episode. The most recent scene also does a good job of show-don't-tell because while we will of course hear about him being the Strongest Knight in the Seven Kingdoms later on, we've already been shown him rag dolling everyone this episode.

    • Riley Oakley
      Riley Oakley 2 months ago

      Plus the tourney happens in the future I’m prettybsure

    • Riley Oakley
      Riley Oakley 2 months ago

      @aidil r. nah after he lost in a tourney to criston which broke a few of his bones he was called brokenbones😂 breakbones is due to the fact he’s a massive strong ass mf

    • Hari Krishnan
      Hari Krishnan 2 months ago +4

      @aidil r. just in a tourney, not a fight. Harwin is still stronger physically

    • Dont know about this
      Dont know about this 2 months ago +2

      at the royal hunt viserys mocks larrys strong if he also counsels him on marrying rhaenyra to his son breakbones the strongest knight in the seven kingdoms.

    • Ali Emre Kepenek
      Ali Emre Kepenek 2 months ago +2

      @aidil r. apparently in the books he did lose. Got his collarbone and stuff broken by Cole. Which implies Cole is stronger than Harwin.

  • charity williamson
    charity williamson 2 months ago +94

    Daemon staying seated when Alicent entered gave me life 😌

    • Gadget-Walkmen
      Gadget-Walkmen 2 months ago

      lol why? what was the significance of that action again? I forgot.

  • Moonman
    Moonman 2 months ago +66

    Really liked Rhea Royce for the 20 seconds she was alive. Gave me Lyanna vibes

  • Moeez Malik
    Moeez Malik 2 months ago +426

    "The beacon on the Hightower, do you know what colour it glows when Oldtown calls its banners to war?" What an unbelievable piece of writing that is. The Strong's completely took over this episode!

    • Nobusiness M
      Nobusiness M Month ago

      Srsly? loook, there's a dragon, get hyped

    • Haile
      Haile 2 months ago +1

      @James A i agree i felt like it was heavy-handed and unnecessary. i'm not an observant person at all and even I got that the green dress is the hightower color and that she was saying "I am a Hightower and I know who I stand for and it's not these Targaryens." it was very clearly an act of drawing the war lines, they didn't need to shove it down our throats

    • VarsityMedia
      VarsityMedia 2 months ago

      @James A yes w t f that was brilliant. now maybe the guy shouldnt have replied green but regardless beautiful scene

    • BP Lup
      BP Lup 2 months ago

      Unbelievable writing? The only thing it was missing was the writer leaning into shot, looking into the camera and going: "DID YOU GET THAT, AUDIENCE?!"

    • KJR
      KJR 2 months ago

      To me, that's the exact opposite of good writing; hammering the audience over the head instead of nuance. Great episode all the same.

  • Cameron Nunléy
    Cameron Nunléy 2 months ago +377

    I don't know what Daemon was thinking his wife seems like a 10/10, but too each his own I guess.

    • Elementroar
      Elementroar 2 months ago

      Not blonde enough. Like seriously, I think he can’t stand non-Valyrian partners, he’s perfectly fertile with Laena and Rhaenyra later so we have the evidence in his kids

    • Kaue Tadaieski
      Kaue Tadaieski 2 months ago

      She can beautiful but he does not like the rest of her and so he insults her, what's hard to understand?

    • Gadget-Walkmen
      Gadget-Walkmen 2 months ago

      EXACTLY what I said, she was SO fine!

    • SerunaXI
      SerunaXI 2 months ago

      She didn't have white hair, and she seemed very much on her own way. Who knows, maybe she kicked him out of bed and he wanted nothing to do with her after that.

    • Philip Joyce
      Philip Joyce 2 months ago

      @Lennie Small ahah good call

  • Audrey
    Audrey 2 months ago +246

    also lyonel’s face when daemon is speaking to the rhoyce guy is just amazing. he’s like are you really doing this?😂

    • Hunter McDonald
      Hunter McDonald 2 months ago +50

      Lionel just in the background sipping his drink this whole episode had me cracking up.

    • Skywatcher Adept
      Skywatcher Adept 2 months ago

      Gerold: I am making an accusation.
      Daemon: You know, in King's Landing, men are made to answer for their slanders. Even old bronze cսոts like you.

  • Les Œufs
    Les Œufs 2 months ago +136

    Can we please call this wedding “the green wedding” in accordance to color coding all the notable wedding and i think that makes sense thanks to alicent absolutely SLAYING!

    • Leon Robinson
      Leon Robinson Month ago

      "Yaas queen slay" has never been more fitting....

    • Kyle Farnham
      Kyle Farnham 2 months ago +4

      @VikingTheDude yes

    • VikingTheDude
      VikingTheDude 2 months ago +5

      Was jeoffreys wedding called the purple wedding?

    • paurri
      paurri 2 months ago +23

      I like this tradition of assigning colors to the messiest weddings. Also, green was the color of the evening, I vote for The Green Wedding!

    • TrueFan.site
      TrueFan.site 2 months ago +2

      Wait. Shouldn't it be the Black wedding because Alicent wasn't the one getting married. ??

  • Roderick Mehringer
    Roderick Mehringer 2 months ago +489

    I love how the audience has been a little manipulated, Daemon is kinda coded as a swaggering misunderstood smart mouth anti hero in episode one, and every episode we’re made to see him just a leetle bit more villainous lol

    • Ser Winzzalot
      Ser Winzzalot 2 months ago

      Manipulated? It's just a tv show

    • Comic Crossing
      Comic Crossing 2 months ago

      @B. Catão his men didn't "claim" they were criminals. They were criminals. Kings Landing has always had a serious crime problem. Daemons Gold Cloaks are people from the area. They went out and killed and punished known criminals.

    • Kaue Tadaieski
      Kaue Tadaieski 2 months ago

      @B. Catão not for that universe.

    • B. Catão
      B. Catão 2 months ago

      His first scene is a massacre of peasants that his men claimed were criminals, but we really only have their words for it. Dude has been a bad person from the start.

    • Comic Crossing
      Comic Crossing 2 months ago

      @P What do you think he was going to do? straight up murder her? I dont think he even had a weapon.

  • A.E. Licup
    A.E. Licup 2 months ago +447

    I also love how we are subtly reminded that Alicent probably got her timidity from her father. Last episode when Otto was clearly struggling with words to finish sentences or only being able to say "Your Grace" when confronted and then seeing Alicent do it in this episode when she does her own inquest is so cool. It also fits the theme of how second sons are usually timid or pricklier compared to their prouder, older, lordly brothers like Hobert, Jason Lannister with his own brother, Tyland and Corlys with his own younger brother Vaemond. It also highlights how much of an exception Daemon is because he is not timid in the slightest.

    • Sujay95
      Sujay95 2 months ago

      Boldness and timidty has nothing to do with being older or younger sibling. It has everything to do with being in positions of power. Otto and Hobert are both powerful and Otto even more so than his younger brother. Otto is stuttering because his position is lower than that of Viserys' and he could potentially lose his life if he didn't play his cards right. Daemon is a Targaryen and he knows no one can push him around since he's of royal bloodline and his brother is The King. He is a spoiled brat and a murderous bully. Also, he has a dragon who can burn anyone to a crisp.

    • sean puffy catacombs
      sean puffy catacombs 2 months ago +2

      I think she got it from a childhood that was equal parts being shifted around like part of the furniture and from parental "motivation" that mostly took the form of threats and criticisms. Remember how Otto tries to get her to stop the finger picking basically by insulting her

    • Travis McNasty
      Travis McNasty 2 months ago +4

      Daemon is also insanely evil.

    • Hypothalapotamus
      Hypothalapotamus 2 months ago +3

      The first brother gets everything. The second brother is at the mercy of the first or must make something of himself.

    • Xainfinen
      Xainfinen 2 months ago +1

      Yes, they do have the same mannerism, they lower their head the same way when embarrassed or intimidated.

  • Olorin
    Olorin 2 months ago +53

    Thanks to Daemon's animal husbandry skills he noticed the unease of her horse. Poor thing probably sensed it's riders irrational hysteria. He simply tries to reach out and calm the horse. Unfortunately the damage was done, the horse had to get that cruel harpy off it's back. Then Daemon uses the rocks on the roadside to fashion a crude cairn to protect his lady wife's body from random predators and the elements. The man is a saint.

    • MT Lacunae
      MT Lacunae Month ago

      He was just helping Crabfeeder scratch that itch, it isn't Daemon's fault crabfeeder moved.

    • benisacommonname
      benisacommonname 2 months ago +5

      Daemon did nothing wrong!

  • HaldorZX
    HaldorZX 2 months ago +50

    I found it rather significant that it was leeches specifically that Melos was constantly using on Viserys. Seems to me that if the Maesters wanted to get there hands on Targaryean blood (for some entirely innocent reason) that would be a decent way to go about it.

    • HaldorZX
      HaldorZX 2 months ago +10

      @Agustín Prieto Melos specifically said leeches had always helped Viserys get back on his feet or something to that effect, implying that leeches were the default treatment. The maggots were used that one specific time to try and save Viserys' finger.

    • Agustín Prieto
      Agustín Prieto 2 months ago +1

      They don't use leeches. They use maggots that eat rotten flesh, as we see in episode 2 when Viserys sticks his hand in a bowl of maggots.

  • Taytay Queen
    Taytay Queen 2 months ago +425

    Rhea cool as fuck. Called daemon out on allll his bullshit. Daemons phallic issues (lol) is actually a really nice layer given to his personality, makes a lot of sense

    • Elementroar
      Elementroar 2 months ago +2

      Lol his ED is clearly gone by next episode 😂

    • Kaue Tadaieski
      Kaue Tadaieski 2 months ago +1

      @Himani Yadav Daemon has like a bunch of Children. That's all bull lol

    • NeoGemini
      NeoGemini 2 months ago +3

      @Himani Yadav But how does that ties into Daemon marrying Laena and Rhaenyra and having four children? They kinda just invented this problem when it was never in the book really OR maybe it's not big as an issue as we are making of it?

    • Comic Crossing
      Comic Crossing 2 months ago +7

      lol "cool as fuck". She got so afraid of Daemon slowly walking toward her she fell off her horse and basically killed herself haha

    • Himani Yadav
      Himani Yadav 2 months ago +19

      @Greywolf757 Well, it's not really the same since women in this world are expected to not really enjoy sex or get anything out of it besides babies anyway. So most women even with "trouble having sex" don't really get a choice in the matter either way. Whereas obviously for men virility = masculinity = power, and for Daemon who is so cruel and wants to be seen as badass so bad, his sexual impotence is clearly supposed to be ironic (and ties into his thematic struggle with power)

  • Roderick Mehringer
    Roderick Mehringer 2 months ago +208

    I think that Daemon made up his mind to hate Rhea when he was told to marry her (Blackfish vibes) my read of his character is that he just hates being told what to do

    • Kaue Tadaieski
      Kaue Tadaieski 2 months ago

      @Paulyetta Freeman he can burn down her house and he is a Targaryen. She is not more powerful than him, he is a one man army.

    • Sit-ins For sithis
      Sit-ins For sithis 2 months ago

      @Paulyetta Freeman HAHAHA that is such a stupid comment, he isn’t just a “wounded little boy”. Did you read the books by any chance ?you may not like him but the brother to the king is MUCH more powerfull then a lesser house lady from the fucking vale

    • Paulyetta Freeman
      Paulyetta Freeman 2 months ago +2

      @Melancholic Mango same. She would have been fun to watch.

    • Matthieu Le Brun
      Matthieu Le Brun 2 months ago +2

      The difference with Blackfish is that Blackfish resents the arranged marriage because he's gay, and even then he didn't murder his wife.
      If all Daemon wants is to bang Rhaenyra it's not like there's much stopping him. What he would have wanted is to marry her because that gets him on the throne, with significantly more clout than Laenor in the same situation due to having a claim himself.

    • M3 🇷🇺
      M3 🇷🇺 2 months ago

      Wasn't she gay?

  • JazzyCat
    JazzyCat 2 months ago +54

    For someone supposedly entranced by Rhaenyra, Daemon sure was happy to abandon her to the chaos when Criston starting hating criming Joffrey

    • SexySiren 24
      SexySiren 24 2 months ago +6

      Lol yeah him just poofin out of existence was pretty dumb. Hope we get some explanation for that, as I don't think Daemon is the type to run away from a fight.

    • Greywolf757
      Greywolf757 2 months ago +10

      He needs Rhaenyra to help him get to the throne, but she's useless to him if he gets killed in a brawl.

  • Kye Kimler
    Kye Kimler 2 months ago +100

    HOTD continues to impress me. Within the first 15 minutes of this episode Ryan’s ability to adapt from the books was made astoundingly obvious. The elaboration on Rhea Royce’s death, followed up by Larys sowing his seeds with Alicent (and some awesome foreshadowing for those that know his role in the future) is just... awesome. The creators had some huge shoes to fill as well as huge wounds to heal and they’ve just done such a good job I cannot overstate it.
    Also GODDAMN the actor of Criston Cole is doing an incredible job.

    • Dedalus
      Dedalus 2 months ago +5

      I was in awe with the acting of Criston Cole this episode!

    • TrueFan.site
      TrueFan.site 2 months ago +3

      Please do not spoil.

  • Ozymandias
    Ozymandias 2 months ago +36

    The only thing I didn’t like that much is Criston just killing Joffrey, it would have been cool had Joffrey said what he said and Criston waiting until a melee to kill him. It could have built up suspense if we had a shot of Criston looking at him deciding wether to do it or not

    • Gadget-Walkmen
      Gadget-Walkmen 2 months ago

      STRONGLY against that notion about the Criston taking out Joffrey. It make sense for Crispin's character entirely to do that Joffrey was defiantly was pushing Crispin to watch out to make sure they both get keep their secrets a SECRET and that set Crispin OFF because it goes against his values and notion of what a honorable knight is supposed to be.
      They left it also a bit ambiguous on purpose with so much happening with so many characters. It leaves the question of if Crispin finally snapped under all the pressure or did Joffrey poke the bear too much about the situation on how they got into a fight.

    • SouthernOregonReps
      SouthernOregonReps 2 months ago +4

      I respectfully disagree… I loved the way it played out!

    • Comic Crossing
      Comic Crossing 2 months ago +3

      The point is that it was a heat of the moment thing done by a man who is absolutely falling apart. Not some cold and calculated "accident" planned in advance. That doesnt make sense for Cristons character at this point at all.

    JSEPH TES 2 months ago +192

    I am intrigued to see how the relationship between Leanor and Rhaenyra develops, considering how one's lover killed the others.

    • Grip Ghoul
      Grip Ghoul 2 months ago

      @Dom I think he was giving spoilers when he said "STRONG" children, as in the father will be from the strong family, which is probably a book spoiler

    • Dom
      Dom 2 months ago +1

      @Naptown Culer just a clue, her first born son, Jacaerys Valaryon, which will be introduced in the next episode, has completely black hair, when both his parents all have silver hair.

    • Dom
      Dom 2 months ago

      @Naptown Culer u will be disappointed in the next episode 😅

    • Melancholic Mango
      Melancholic Mango 2 months ago +9

      I don't think Rhaenyra cares much about Ser Criston. She was not in love with him, just wanted to have some fun. But I can't see Laenor being to warm with Rhaenyra. It is due to her his lover was killed afterall.

    • Naptown Culer
      Naptown Culer 2 months ago +50

      They will have many STRONG children to rule the realm for ages to come!

  • elck3
    elck3 2 months ago +120

    22:00 I think this shows how much of an abuse of power it was for Rhaneara to bed Creston Cole. Even if he wanted it (which he obviously did), it was still a treasonous act for him and clearly he stands to lose way way more than her in that instance. And her not showing any commitment, for him to essentially be reminded that he is eternally tied in a cage now to preen for her, no wonder he snaps.

      FRED HAMPTON IS MY HERO 2 months ago

      @Menno_3 lmfao 😂😂😂😂

    • W.A.S
      W.A.S 2 months ago +1

      I agree , she abuse her power because she knew she gets out easily with it, and she don't really think for the consequences for the people involved.

    • Menno_3
      Menno_3 2 months ago +1

      @F Flanman You must have seen an entirely different episode, cuz he did not want to have sex

    • F Flanman
      F Flanman 2 months ago +2

      @Menno_3 ? He is giggling and smiling and looks absolutely smitten, what are you on about?

    • F Flanman
      F Flanman 2 months ago +2

      I agree. The clearly imbalanced power dynamic tainted that otherwise sweet and romantic scene for me. It was also highlighted by his hesitance and nerves and her contrasting lightness and playful demeanour. She clearly didn't give the dire consequences for him a single thought, simply following Daemons' advice and taking what she wanted.
      It's an abuse of power, even though it's clear that they both have genuine feelings for one another, she is privileged and protected due to her lineage and he will always be the one in true jeopardy if they are found out. It's also wild how oblivious she is to this dynamic, again, when she offers him the position of her secret lover, as if that weren't a degrading slap in the face to him. It seems like her thought process is simply- if all powerful men can have their cake and eat it, why can't I?

  • Nate The Great
    Nate The Great 2 months ago +20

    Daemon stepping on Rhea's arm with no reaction verified she was paralyzed. That was pretty cruel

    • Lee Barbs
      Lee Barbs 2 months ago

      Honestly at that point it was almost MORE merciful just to kill her...

  • Shirraz87
    Shirraz87 2 months ago +33

    I feel like a lot of Alicent's anger towards Rhaenyra has a bit of loneliness and jealousy mixed together. In ep 4, they had that brief heart to heart in the gardens about Alicent being in the very position that Rhaenyra is afraid of. The parallel they set up while Rhaenyra was out on the town with Daemon, while Alicent was being used for sex by Viserys. Alicent even said that Rhaenyra is fortunate that she can at least pick her match or do things that other women cannot do. And of course, she stood up for her friend many times, advocated for her, only to find out that Rhaenyra lied to her. So she felt betrayed. It all just sucks for the whole lot of them haha Everyone's an asshole, that's my view xD

    • assortment of pills, but never blue pill
      assortment of pills, but never blue pill 2 months ago +3

      Thats where the resentment is really coming from. Alicent knows she's being politically dumb standing up for her friend over her family only to find out her friend isn't so loyal to her

    • Prophet
      Prophet 2 months ago

      I totally get that but I imagine their friendship had been on the rocks for a long while considering she literally fucked rhaenyras dad

  • Alexander M.
    Alexander M. 2 months ago +271

    I bet that Larys Strong has secretly learned Valyrian language and is using people's confidence while speaking the language to figure out secrets.

    • Ruth Bennett
      Ruth Bennett 2 months ago +2

      I’m going to start calling Larys “The Three-eared Rat”. He is clearly stirring up the chaos to manipulate this situation. He has knowledge of conversations & events beyond just listening to teatime gossip.

    • magister343
      magister343 2 months ago +1

      @kevincarter2020 Most highborn lords are not particularly well educated. Many are even illiterate. Larys's father Lyonel, however, was one of the best educated men in Westeros. He was a huge man who on first appearance seemed to be a brute, but was in fact extremely shrewd and clever. He had almost completed forging his chain to become a Maester when his older brother died and left him as the only heir to Harrenhall. We don't know what kinds of links Lyonel forged, but it is possible he even had one of Valyrian steel. It would not surprise me at all of Lyonel were fluent in Old Valyrian and taught his son too. Harwin Strong takes after Lyonel physically but Larys is their heir to his intellect.

    • Marcus Halberstram
      Marcus Halberstram 2 months ago +4

      @kevincarter2020 Tyrion was unusually bookish though. Larys might have learned it, he seems the type, but it isn’t a core part of the Westerosi “curriculum”, if you like.

    • TheZerech
      TheZerech 2 months ago

      I believe in the lore, it's implied most lords are uneducated, which is kind of silly if you know real medieval history, but that's how it is. Some do educate themselves, and could go that far, especially under Targaryen rule, plus Valryian is still used in most of the free cities.

    • Winston Lee
      Winston Lee 2 months ago +1

      @Barton Archuleta god damn it

  • Tdogg
    Tdogg 2 months ago +402

    If only Criston could of talked to Gendry about one knight stands..

    • OldGerard
      OldGerard 2 months ago

      @W.A.S ahh yes. He really seemed so into his oath and honor when he was telling the princess to just run away with him to Essos lmao

      FRED HAMPTON IS MY HERO 2 months ago

      @Karim we get you want crispys pole. STFU

    • benisacommonname
      benisacommonname 2 months ago

      @Dhriti Dutta probably death or prison in reality, because the wall is fictional.

    • Karim
      Karim 2 months ago +1

      @Hephaestus you picked the wrong one mate

    • Karim
      Karim 2 months ago +1

      @Dhriti Duttatha's true unfortunately , but at the end he was trying to kill himself as any honorable knight should've done in westeros

  • Elessar0wind
    Elessar0wind 2 months ago +420

    Yes Daimon did intend for his wife to fall off her horse, from his dead silence to how he was dressed intentionally spooking the horse. Watch the fall again, it's very quick, but the moment the horse rears back Daimon jumps forward, grabs the reigns, and forces the horse to be unbalanced and fall back. It was straight up premeditated murder, and she figured it out was coming just too late..

    • Elessar0wind
      Elessar0wind 2 months ago

      @Comic Crossing As a knight/warrior, he needs to know horses. We also literally see him joust... on a horse.
      I stated in my op. He grabs the reigns of the horse. It's only a few frames but it's there.

    • Comic Crossing
      Comic Crossing 2 months ago

      @Elessar0wind But he didnt knock the horse over. At all. He doesnt even touch it. Her own sudden movement and the noise of the bow is what spooked the horse causing it to fall. And where are you getting the idea that Daemon "knows horses"? He doesnt ride horses primarily. Hes a Dragon Rider.

    • Elessar0wind
      Elessar0wind 2 months ago

      @Comic Crossing Daemon knows horses, and he's strong enough to tilt one off balance when it reared. I think his intent was to stage a horse accident, hence no weapons. And I don't think anyone's going to change my mind.
      As for the book, haven't read it, but I heard he also had an alibi: being nowhere near the incident. But the book itself is an unreliable narrator full of hearsay and second accounts so... Anyway the show and book should be considered separate canons anyway, so expect more departures.

    • Comic Crossing
      Comic Crossing 2 months ago

      @Elessar0wind IDK. But you dont know either. Again, he had no weapon. You seriously believe he was expecting a crazy horse accident miracle for it to happen??? Its a weird change regardless because he absolutely did not kill his wife in the books. She had a riding accident and was alive for 9 days before perishing. During which time she certainly wouldve told someone "hey Daemon scared me horse so I fell".

    • Elessar0wind
      Elessar0wind 2 months ago

      @Comic Crossing So why do you think the Daemon was dressed in a way he wouldn't be easily identified at a distance, to meet his wife in a secluded not easily viewable place on the road, unannounced?

  • Sam A
    Sam A 2 months ago +49

    Paddy Considine has added so much to the character of Viserys. Absolutely loved him in every episode, really feel like they haven't just done this character justice but actually improved him in comparison to the book version. So far I feel similar about Otto and Alicent too, when i read the book I was always 100% team black, but these first 5 episodes have certainly made otto and alicent more complex and understandable imo. Still feel like I'm going to be team black this time too tho

    • Eleanor Mason
      Eleanor Mason 2 months ago +2

      I am definitely team black- no matter the appearance of a son, Viserys named Rhaenyra his heir, and all the lords pledged their allegiance to her as heir. Had it been that much of an issue, there could have been a civil war then when there were other viable successors. But no, they bent the knee and the king has not named a different heir.

    • Chenara Seepersad
      Chenara Seepersad 2 months ago +2

      Agree Paddy adds a lot of heart to Viserys

    • Karlijn S
      Karlijn S 2 months ago +1

      I mean otto arranged the marriage knowing the king wanted rhea as his heir. He went into it knowing what position he would but his daughter in and also the issue that would crop up if she had a son.

    • Stephan zu Münster
      Stephan zu Münster 2 months ago +2

      While I do have empathy for Alicent, I don't find her particularly likeable. Too humorless.

  • jdilla562
    jdilla562 2 months ago +128

    I was laughing the whole time when daemon entered they didn't even announce him like they did the hightower's 🤣

  • cj
    cj 2 months ago +27

    Really enjoyed Milly Alcock, gonna miss her rendition of Rhaenyra

  • Ethen Millard
    Ethen Millard 2 months ago +39

    As far as Criston punching Joffery to death goes, if you watch it back Criston's armour comes down past his wrists and are at a point. So punching someone repeatedly with a spiky bit of metal will mess up a face.

  • RylVox
    RylVox 2 months ago +74

    When allicent went up to the stage she called rhaenrya "stepdaughter" instead of by her name or "princess" and it definitely could mean a message

    • F Flanman
      F Flanman 2 months ago +3

      Oh 100%! And Rhaenyra got the message loud and clear

    • ivyfurl
      ivyfurl 2 months ago +12

      I think she was pulling rank here for sure

  • Steve Lee
    Steve Lee 2 months ago +40

    Interestingly, maggots are extremely efficient at removing necrotic tissue and allowing damaged tissue to heal. So much so in fact, that it has become popular again in modern modern in light of new research and trials.

  • penguin0912
    penguin0912 2 months ago +134

    Im kinda sad that they killed off Joffrey even though I knew it will happen, I really liked his character and actor did great job!

    • Olorin
      Olorin 2 months ago +1

      @Poop McGee Why would anyone assume that Criston wasn't just doing his job? He was protecting Rhaenyra from her betrothed's jealous lover. Seems like that would be an easy story to spin, even if you leave the lover part out and make up some other motive.

    • Tony78454
      Tony78454 2 months ago

      @napolien 1 lol @ "what if an assassin breaks in". yea bc that'd be alarming if say a knight was killed in the throne room, right?
      My point is this scene was forced and then rushed past so slower viewers wouldn't question it. Also the princess' face makes me want to punch her. Also the crab guy is a big waste of potential tension and character development. All the eps have been talking about the same things in front of some greyish background. The score is forgettable, they couldn't even bother to make a new intro song. Show is trash.

    • K
      K 2 months ago

      @Tony78454 Consort = the wifey/hubby of the actual Queen/King. Doesn't make the Consort or Royal boo-thang future King/Queen even if their spouse (Rhaenyra Targaryen) dies. Their children would become the future King/Queen, not them (Laenor Velaryon)
      He NEVER becomes King even after marrying Rhaenyra that's not how monarchies and royal weddings work. He becomes QUEEN'S CONSORT. not King. King means he's from their bloodline, which he is not.
      Tony for fuck's sake go read a damn book or the dictionary.
      a wife, husband, or companion, in particular the spouse of a reigning monarch.

    • TrueFan.site
      TrueFan.site 2 months ago

      @FreeF Free Joffery.

    • TrueFan.site
      TrueFan.site 2 months ago

      @napolien 1 Good answer. It wasn't a Democracy or a Republic. I keep posting this, but so many people don't understand how a Monarchy based on ancient Medieval Europe would work.

  • Afraz Fazal
    Afraz Fazal 2 months ago +45

    I've been wondering what led to the initiation of the brawl and the eventual death of joffery. We see daemon holding rhaenyra by the face, some people at the head table notice, crowd gets in the way and then we hear shouting and the crowd converging. What exactly happened?
    Did cristen notice daemon and rhaenyra and stepped in to push him back? Leading to laenor/joffery, who fought with daemon against crabby, to step in? Or was it the other way around, with laenor and joffery stepping in against daemon and cristen seizing the opportunity after that conversation he had with joff?
    Also found it strange that both laenor and laena seemed to be pushed or tackled outta the way almost as if they were being targeted
    It's hard to surmise but I was hoping for some discussion on what you and people think happened during that entire scene

    • Frëya Sworn
      Frëya Sworn 2 months ago +1

      i can imagine since the confrontation we had at the table with the royce guy and daemon, he probably had a go at daemon in a crowd to see if he could get away with it. Attacking a targ would easily be enough reason for guards to come in, especially next to the heir as well, eyes on her always by cole through the wedding. I dont know how it escalates to the lover getting his head smashed in by cole though. Especially since the heir called her betrothed husband in with his lover to follow. so they were obviously assisting what we think is in the heirs interest. Maybe the lover was in support of someone else in reality, we see how relationships with each player can drastically change. Maybe Daemon actually was threatening the heir and he had a few friends amongst the feast to start brawling if needs be

  • manbearpig
    manbearpig 2 months ago +62

    I also love how her baby girl is always crying, and always a window in the frame

    • Eibhilin O'R
      Eibhilin O'R 2 months ago +1

      bro that's dark 😭

    • OldGerard
      OldGerard 2 months ago

      The things we do for love lmao

    • TheRaptorsClaw
      TheRaptorsClaw 2 months ago

      OH MY GOD you're an evil fucking genius for this comment

    • itskashkashi
      itskashkashi 2 months ago +5

      @manbearpig I swore I wasn't going to be sucked in again you know, but here we are lol.

    • manbearpig
      manbearpig 2 months ago

      @Juan Rad I think so

  • Edward Irra
    Edward Irra 2 months ago +13

    Hearing Laenor wail like that was genuinely heartbreaking, gave me strong Catelyn vibes. Those two had one of the most tender romantic scenes that didn't end in sex in the show so far and then homie gets Oberyn'd
    That hurt

  • Hann
    Hann 2 months ago +42

    I love that Larys is another second son who has to make his own fortune in the world. Very excited to see how much he'll go against his father and brother for his own machinations, or if Lord Lyonel Strong is planting his family on both sides like a master manipulator.

  • Naptown Culer
    Naptown Culer 2 months ago +39

    I absolutely loved the imagery and foreshadowing in the wedding scene. It feels to me like the Dance truly began during that banquet and dancing. Everything now is rising action to the long and bloody climax.

  • Warren Blyth
    Warren Blyth 2 months ago +42

    I think there is a good chance Lyonel Strong seems like "a genuinely good guy" but is quietly pushing breakbones to hang around and see if he might hook up with Rhaenyra. In a similar way to Otto sending his kid to hang around with the lonely king.

    • Dom
      Dom 2 months ago

      But then his grandkid will be a bastard

  • Zanowin
    Zanowin 2 months ago +24

    Rhea's horse freaked out at Daemon because he smelled like dragon and fire (established in e1), and we all know that Daemon never visits his Lady Wife so there is no possible way the Vale horses could get use to dragon smell.

  • GoneRogueArt UK
    GoneRogueArt UK 2 months ago +5

    Alicent mostly wore red, when she questioned criston she wore blue, then green.
    Blue is the colour thats between red and green on the colour wheel. So when she was questioning criston cole, her alignment was on the edge,after she talked to him, she wore green, indicating she had completely switched sides.

  • tamatebako
    tamatebako 2 months ago +33

    I think it wasn't so much feeling threatened by Joffry that push Criston over the edge as it was feeling mocked. Like, obviously, that's not Joffry's fault, he couldn't have known, but Criston feels so strongly about his oath and what he did was wrong, he's so ridden with guilt that someone coming up to him and basically telling him "it's okay, just keep doing it, we'll keep it a secret" feels like vicious mockery. He doesn't want someone to absolute him, he wants someone to condemn him. Guilt-struck people want that, they think they deserve no better.
    That's why he confessed to Alicent in the first place, not because, as some people erroneously assume, he figured Alicent knew their secret. Rhaenyra rejected him, basically, (I must say it was a bit short-sighted of her as she didn't realize how tormenting the whole ordeal was to Criston) and as this was the only way out he could imagine for himself, in his mind, there was nothing left but to confess. Alicent didn't make the smartest choice here, either, she basically dismissed him without giving him any insight as to how she was going to proceed. All she had to say was something along the lines of "I'll think about it and talk to you again later". So the confession didn't take away from his misery and the uncertainty of his fate in the slightest, and as mentally unstable as he was, things happened the way they did.
    At the same time I do think he should have directed his anger towards Daemon instead. Criston is, unfortunately, not the smartest in the bunch, and his emotional state did the rest.

    • F Flanman
      F Flanman 2 months ago +1

      I also think that it wasn't just the less than subtly implied threat, or the wry mockery of the conversation with Joffrey that did it, but also how it intensifies Cristons feeling of being trapped. Joffrey frames it as a "I know your dirty little secret and you know mine, so we can never tell, and as long as you keep it, you'll live." That the exact opposite of what a man desperate for absolution and the restoration of his honour wants and needs to hear.

    • F Flanman
      F Flanman 2 months ago

      I agree. I don't think it was that out of place if we read him as a character who's honour is his highest purpose. He is now trapped, unable to continue to live with himself for soiling his vows, yet unable to escape. Guilt can drive a person mad. I understand him somewhat, because whilst I'm not a person with violent impulses, I do have an extremely hard time coping with even mild feelings of guilt. The dissonance that arises when the person you want to be and think you are yet a certain action or behaviour of yours doesn't align with that is painful for someone with integrity. It's hard to bear because you can start to feel like you don't know who you are/recognise yourself anymore.
      I think those feelings were building, his last hope of escape was rejected by Rhaenyra and then on top of that he had to watch her and all the powerful noblemen and women of the realm celebrate her new marriage whilst he stood there, powerless and disgraced. I think it was shocking but not far fetched.

    • TrueFan.site
      TrueFan.site 2 months ago

      Plus if Criston saw Daemon almost kissing Rhaenyra - that had to start his adrenaline pumping. IDK, maybe he didn't see it but it sure happened right before Criston went off.

    • Troutsy
      Troutsy 2 months ago +3

      Fully agree. Some people are calling his violent outburst "bad writing", I feel like it's 100% consistent with his character so far - especially considering the earlier events in this episode.

    • tamatebako
      tamatebako 2 months ago +3

      @Isaac Flett I don't think so. Obviously the Queen didn't know about him and the Princess and was talking about Daemon but he saw the situation as an opportunity to confess, and so he did.

  • Stomatolog
    Stomatolog 2 months ago +28

    I think Rhea realised that he might kill her, and that is why she went for the bow.. her face looked scared at the moment she went to grab it..

  • Bogesy
    Bogesy 2 months ago +13

    One of my favorite moments in the episode was Rhaenys greeting Viserys and just in gripping his hands knew he wasn't well, there hasn't been a direct callout of Viserys' decay so it was interesting to see it be focused on, if only for a second.

  • ArchonZach
    ArchonZach 2 months ago +7

    Jason making fun of women for being late and not be able to fight wars only for the queen to have been late on purpose to declare war in her own way is brilliant

  • Jake Hall
    Jake Hall 2 months ago +39

    What an episode. Truly jam packed with details and set ups. Loving every single character more and more

  • NukeMarine
    NukeMarine 2 months ago +198

    Things not mentioned: In ep 03, there's a scene where Daemon pours out the elixir that's meant to fix his hangover. This could parallel that Rhaenerys poured out the moon tea and is pregnant with Cole's child.
    Queen Alicent may be pulling an anti-Cersei. Where Cersei tried to use sex and deception to gain power and pawns, Queen Alicent just listened to Cole's confession and basically forgave him. She then came when he was literally rock bottom and offered a hand of salvation from his personal doom. Cole may become this super-devout, ultra-chivalrous, white knight protector of Queen Alicent that's almost religious zealotry in nature (think Mother Mary worship).Cole could be less a spurned lover that switched to being a secret lover of Alicent and more a guy that found religion after being at his lowest. No sex involved.
    Likely any camera shot that seems behind the wall or panels likely means the conversation is being spied upon. Larys (Little finger + vARYS) being the key suspect

    • NukeMarine
      NukeMarine 2 months ago +6

      @Ash Benamti Don't forget that Cersei as a young girl tortured baby Tyrion and as a teen killed her friend cause the friend wanted to marry Jaime. Oh, and she a narcissist that's always a victim and better than anyone else in her own mind.
      Alicent gives off none of those vibes.

    • mejuliie
      mejuliie 2 months ago +5

      I like that idea a lot!
      I was just thinking about him becoming devout to her because she quite literally saved him from death twice in this episode. He really hit rock bottom, as you said, and Alicent is the only one to actually show him kindness. Even it is for her own gain.
      This is such a stark contrast to Rhaenyra, who basically told him he is worth nothing to her.
      But I really like the idea of his devotion having an almost religious zeal to it. Would make it even more interesting to see him committed to Alicent in a way he never was to Rhaenyra.

    • Ash Benamti
      Ash Benamti 2 months ago +5

      Alicent was giving me SO much Cersei vibes. Reminds me of the earlier seasons where Cersei was telling I think Eddard that when she first became Queen everybody seemed to be her friend but in reality used her. So instead she became a player of the Game and doing all she can for her family and children which is what Alicent will do.

    • Cee Dee
      Cee Dee 2 months ago +10

      He's definitely going to become a maker of sorts in the near future. (High I.Q. spoiler alert)

    • TrueFan.site
      TrueFan.site 2 months ago +13

      @Jennifer Santos All this spoiling. Please stop.

  • Lost
    Lost 2 months ago +37

    From such a small conversation, I really felt that if Daemon and Rhea could have gotten along they would have been able to take the throne by force

    • Peter
      Peter 2 months ago +2

      @Tilikum Tim Yeah. But you absolutely cracked me up with your original comment, please don't edit it.

    • Grubiantoll
      Grubiantoll 2 months ago

      Deamon seems to be posed with deep masculinity issues, guys with thouse sort of issues do not do well with no-BS, masculine and confrontational females, they probably do ewen worst in historical settings

    • Tilikum Tim
      Tilikum Tim 2 months ago +1

      @ZERO THE FOOL I'm probably thinking of a different character then! (Rhynera?, Daemon's niece). I always forget character names.

    • Faith M
      Faith M 2 months ago +4


      ZERO THE FOOL 2 months ago +21

      @Tilikum Tim sir he literally killed her for no reason

  • I Putu Satyena Pande
    I Putu Satyena Pande 2 months ago +28

    The characterization is just guzzling, and the dialogue exchange is top-notch. Larys is growing to be one of the most intriguing. Can't wait to see how the show handles his ambiguity and motivation.

  • Grah-Vehz2009
    Grah-Vehz2009 2 months ago +36

    If the marriage was never consummated I wonder how legitimate it could be considered if he’s making a claim to her inheritance

    • Dom
      Dom 2 months ago

      Does everyone know it was not consummated, can Daemon just say Lady Rhea was infertile or something

    • macsmith2013
      macsmith2013 2 months ago +3

      I haven't read the books, but that may become a plot point later on.

  • Deimos2k5
    Deimos2k5 2 months ago +9

    Re: Criston being Dornish - that's just something Rhaenyra/Alicent say when they see him. They just mistook him for a Dornishman due to his look and complexion, which is understandable. You have to assume there's intermarriage on the borders of Dorne and the 7K, especially among commoners. These sheltered King's Landing girls aren't necessarily to know the difference

    • magister343
      magister343 2 months ago +1

      I was half expecting Rhaenyra to say something about how Paramores are highly honored in Dorne and then have Christon Cole react to that like it was a racist slur against him as he may have a bit of Dornish blood but was raised as a Marcher of the Stormlands were the Dornish and their strange cultural norms are reviled.

  • TexMechs
    TexMechs 2 months ago +3

    Awwww....I loved the Bronze Bitch. I wish we could have seen her and Daemon together more than once.
    Ps: leaches can help wounds but 10 years of wound care and I've never used them. I've used Maggots. They come in a cool little bag. But they are very very painful. They eat the dead flesh, but they basically weedeat your wound, so we would need to medicate patients before placing them. Also, if you are treating a wound, if you see no improvement in 2 weeks, you have to change tactics. Viserys is just getting worse and worse. At some point, even a moron would think, "maybe we should try something else." Unless they are actively making things worse.

  • John MacGerahty
    John MacGerahty 2 months ago +52

    I DIDNT get the impression that Joffrey was instigating or threatening Crispin. It seemed more like he was going to him like “hey man, I know you and Rhae got a secret. It’s cool, cuz Laenor and I have one too. Since you and I both care about them so much, we should kinda team up and look out for them: take care of each other’s secrets, because it could go really bad for everyone if we don’t.”

    • Gadget-Walkmen
      Gadget-Walkmen 2 months ago

      LOL Not at all, he defiantly was pushing Crispin to watch out to make sure they both get keep their secrets a SECRET and that set Crispin OFF because it goes against his values and notion of what a honorable knight is supposed to be.
      They left it also a bit ambiguous on purpose with so much happening with so many characters. It leaves the question of if Crispin finally snapped under all the pressure or did Joffrey poke the bear too much or did they get into a fight.

    • F Flanman
      F Flanman 2 months ago +3

      There was 100% an implied threat. It wasn't buddy buddy at all. It was a highborn man making it very clear to a disgraced lowborn man, that he knew his secret - one that could kill him. It was veiled in nicety but it wasn't nice. Even his tone was condescending.

    • mejuliie
      mejuliie 2 months ago

      @John MacGerahty I agree that Joffrey didn't think this would happen when he approached Cole.
      Criston being a knight is not really that important in terms of not wanting to piss him off. Joffrey is a knight as well, and young and arrogant enough to disregard that Cole could easily kill him if he wanted.
      It's like Rhaenys said, they are young and have never seen combat and war - speaking of knights like Joff.
      Joffrey is ignorant to the fact that Cole has seen war, as he is clearly ignorant to the danger of threatening Criston.
      It was not so much about Joffrey knowing, but him suggesting that he would keep Criston's secret as long as he kept his. Criston is not a politician and probably took this as a threat to expose him.
      Given that he is a King's Guard, the affair becoming public knowledge means certain death for Cole.
      In regards to approaching him in private, I was thinking about waiting for Rhaenyra and Leanor to get married, and talking to Criston then. They didn't even know each other. Joffrey could just be a random dude that says he is Leanor's bae. Most importantly, he knows about Criston's and Rhaenyra's affair, which seriously threatens Cole's life.
      In the end it isn't really important whether Joffrey meant to threaten Cole. Criston perceived it as a threat, which just send him over the edge.

    • John MacGerahty
      John MacGerahty 2 months ago +2

      @mejuliie There’s room for discussion about ambiguity concerning it, but there’s definitely no way that it’s “clearly” at all. What he said was that they’re both very much invested in the union, that Joffrey cares deeply for Laenor, as Criston does for Rhae, and that they should “swear to each other to protect (Laenor and Rhaenyra) and their secrets because if those are kept safe, then so are we all.”
      I’d argue that theres no ideal place to have that kind of talk, but the least conspicuous place for him to approach Cole would be in the far end of crowded room filled with loud music and people shouting who are well into their cups.
      And for all the reasons others have already mentioned, there’s no reason at all for Joffrey to threaten or imply a threat to Criston: he’s a kingsguard and a knight. There’s nothing to gain from threatening him, and much more to be gained from trying to buddy up with the Sworn Protector of his boyfriend’s betrothed, who happens to be in a similar “secret lover” situation. Given the situation that Laenor and Joffrey are in, doesn’t it make more sense to try and make an ally that could possibly help keep things chill than to threaten and make an enemy of Rhaenyra’s kingsguard lover? I mean, Joffrey and Laenor knew that Rhaenyra was fine with the arrangement, it was HER idea. There’d be no reason to think that Criston would need to be threatened.
      The point isn’t that Criston was threatened, it’s that he was desperate and guilt ridden and his pride was in tatters. He didn’t want to be Rhaenyra’s secret, he didn’t want to live with the guilt of breaking his oath, and he lost his shit when someone suggested swearing an oath to keep it secret to protect the woman who rejected him after the way she got him to break his last oath.

    • mejuliie
      mejuliie 2 months ago +1

      Joff clearly threatened him. Criston is a King's Guard, which means if his affair with Rhaenyra becomes public knowledge he faces certain death. For Joffrey it would mean embarrassment, but nothing more.
      Had he said something along the lines of "We both care deeply for these two, and I understand we are all in a very difficult/dangerous situation. Please be assured that I will always have your back, and will protect all involved to the best of my abilities.", it would have still shaken Cole but he wouldn't have snapped like that.
      Also, Joffrey approaching him at a public event, where they could have been overheard, instead of in a more private setting, is an unspoken threat as well.

  • Graceanne O Callaghan
    Graceanne O Callaghan 2 months ago +8

    What a complete delight it is to be listening to your voice discussing this world again!! I didn't realise how amazing it was during GOT to have an episode followed by hours of in depth chat! 😍

  • KaiGonGinn
    KaiGonGinn 2 months ago +46

    Though I think the Joffrey murder scene was a abit over the top, it has been established that random violence at important events often goes unpunished if it has any semblance of mutual antagonism. I imagine as a Kingsguard and with the help of Alicent he will get off fine.

    • Gadget-Walkmen
      Gadget-Walkmen 2 months ago

      STRONGLY disagree right there with this wrong notion that the murder scene was at all "abit over the top", no it wasn't. It make sense for Crispin's character entirely. Joffrey was defiantly was pushing Crispin to watch out to make sure they both get keep their secrets a SECRET and that set Crispin OFF because it goes against his values and notion of what a honorable knight is supposed to be.
      They left it also a bit ambiguous on purpose with so much happening with so many characters. It leaves the question of if Crispin finally snapped under all the pressure or did Joffrey poke the bear too much about the situation on how they got into a fight.

    • Olorin
      Olorin 2 months ago +1

      @johny honny Why would anyone assume that Criston wasn't just doing his job? He was protecting Rhaenyra from her betrothed's jealous lover. Seems like that would be an easy story to spin, even if you leave the lover part out and make up some other motive.

    • Dyl
      Dyl 2 months ago

      @Ole Nickel a lot of people saw Joffrey draw a dagger. I realise that Cristen was btfo’ibg him but it does matter that Joffrey drew the dagger first. In a society like Westeros, drawing a blade on a Kingsguard no matter how wrong they are is the same as drawing steel on the king himself

    • Ole Nickel
      Ole Nickel 2 months ago

      I find the number of people surprised that he wasn't immediately arrested bewildering, to say the least. A cop bashing in the head of someone at a public event where he was on guard duty. Scratch that, a secret service agent doing this in an universe where they wear clearly distinguishable uniforms. Of course he goes unpunished. Everyone will already by default be assuming that he had valid reasons. He will be sent away to decompress right after and asked to debrief once the commander has time to talk to him. And then buy even the flimsiest of stories as excuse.

    • Dyl
      Dyl 2 months ago +2

      Criston was in the wrong in that situation and I imagine he would still have killed Joffrey but the argument he will use is that he had no intention of killing him until Joffrey drew his dagger, which in westerosi culture, drawing a blade on the kingsguard is as bad as drawing a blade on the king himself if I interpret the lore right

  • Isabell Xie
    Isabell Xie 2 months ago +76

    I totally think the Hightowers and the miesters are either actively poisoning or at the the lease purposely not giving medical care to Viserys. The moment Otto left, Viserys' health went down so fast, did you see that? He was well enough to bone Alicent just two days ago, and he gets so sick that he collapses. That is not normal

    • Greywolf757
      Greywolf757 2 months ago +1

      But why? Until Viserys declares baby Aegon to be his heir, they need him alive.

    • CameraOnDoug
      CameraOnDoug 2 months ago +6

      It wasn't 2 days ago. Probably at least 2 weeks

    • K
      K 2 months ago +24

      except for that one dude with the poultice. guess he didn't get the memo. leeches galore

  • CosplayCris
    CosplayCris 2 months ago +9

    I think a that Daemon in general operates... not exactly on impulse but on half-baked plans + improvisation. I think he went to the Vale knowing that he *might* try to kill Rhea, but without having truly decided one way or another. Leaving his options open by coming in incognito and cloaked and all that. You can kinda see in his face that he's contemplating what to do when he's looking at her, and I think that's what she picks up on and why she goes for her bow.
    He also makes his decisions based on his very volatile emotions: once she's down on the ground, suffering, he feels satisfied enough to leave it as it is. Until she insults him and wounds his pride, and he makes yet another split second decision to actually kill her.

    • Sassy
      Sassy 2 months ago


  • Metal Gamer
    Metal Gamer 2 months ago +3

    Despite what was said in the video, I think Daemon actually was the one that instigated the fight that ended up killing Joffrey. The last thing we saw was him grabbing Rhaenyra as if he was going to kiss her. This could have provoked a reaction from Laenor, who didn't appreciate anyone handling his bride-to-be in such a manner. And then, in the chaos, Joffrey ended up grabbing Rhaenyra (maybe to protect her), which in turn caused Criston to single him out in his emotionally fueled defence of his lover.

    • Alice Deligny
      Alice Deligny 2 months ago +1

      I'm not sure Laenor would care that much, and there is no indication of that happening.
      I think we give Daemon too much credit for a lot of things. He is cunning, but not like that.

  • Presley Mccubbins
    Presley Mccubbins 2 months ago +8

    My favorite part of this episode was Laenors reaction to his paramour’s face. He had a look of hope On his face like maybe it wasn’t so bad maybe Joffrey is still alive and then he turned his face over and was stricken with grief.

  • Galactic Unicorn
    Galactic Unicorn 2 months ago +22

    Daemon is definitely evil, but having someone like him in a story always makes it much more entertaining, and I appreciate him for it. 😂 He doesn’t have any clear motive. He just wants to cause chaos and piss people off as much as possible, and that makes him sort of unpredictable. You never know what he’s going to do when he shows up. 😂

    • Gadget-Walkmen
      Gadget-Walkmen 2 months ago

      pretty much yeah.

    • Kaue Tadaieski
      Kaue Tadaieski 2 months ago

      Not evil.

    • Magi V
      Magi V 2 months ago

      The only clear motive to me is that he wants to be loved and noticed by his family, and to an attention whore like him, any kind of attention is good attention. This has been going on for so long that he literally can't handle positive kinds of attention anymore because he doesn't know how to respond to it in a non-chaotic way. So he just does increasingly stupid shit to push buttons everywhere and see what he can get away with it lol.

    • Γ Ρ
      Γ Ρ 2 months ago +4

      Deamon is the Loki of this story

  • All The Artsy
    All The Artsy 2 months ago +78

    The whole episode was so tense especially ramping up the moment Alicent walked through the hall, with the Strong brothers talking about the light of the beacon when Hightower calls its banners to war. Daaaamn. I couldn't breathe for the whole last part of it. But what the hell how is Sir Criston not dismissed outright? He attacked the future king consort's close friend and killed and maimed him, despite his attempts to say there was provocation, he should at least be stripped of his White Cloak. That's some bs for him to continue at his post.
    He had plenty of time and opportunity to have no slept with her, but now that he has he's suddenly all committed to his vows?? And, what, Rhaenyra was just supposed to give up her crown, when what she's actually shared with him is that she WANTS for the people to accept her as their true queen? All so what, he can breathe easy? At least Jaime actually loved and protected Cersei to the end and was not a hypocrite about it.

    • Big WhiteDwarf
      Big WhiteDwarf 2 months ago

      @Merlin ppl now cannot take any criticism lightly? Why does everything have to go to the direction of polarization?
      Pointing out where things can be improved means I hate this show? So there are only black and white, two ways to go? Grey just doesn't have its place, rite?
      The reason that HoD / GoT being so great is that every character has natural motivation that drives the character arc to be believable. Sure, Ser Criston could have brain damage to do what he has done. There can be a lot of reasons or excuses to explain his actions. But u always want to have the most believable and surprising twist to let each character shine in this IP. That's the fundamental element that separates this show from many fantasy tv series / films out there.

    • Big WhiteDwarf
      Big WhiteDwarf 2 months ago

      @Extra Victory u have totally mistaken me. I love this show and GoT as I have invested a lot of emotions as many of u do. I want to see this series to be successful and timeless. It has so much potential to be epic. I just wanted to point out where imperfections are and many out there who also love this show agree with me.
      U don't have to drive the conversations into the extreme style. We don't need that kind of stupidity here. Pointing out where things can be improved doesn't mean hatred. I hope u can learn that the world can be as complicated as there are many dimensions that exist.

    • Ash Benamti
      Ash Benamti 2 months ago +4

      Criston will only be dismissed if the Crown allows it, plus if Laenor pushes it too far it will make his tastes stand out more. I also think Corlys had no qualms about his son losing his lover, other examples are the Mountain whose done a lot of messed up stuff. I honestly Criston was so wrapped up in his vow taking that he can't think ahead, and just wanted it to be over with at that point. He even stated that the reason he wanted to marry Rhaenyra was so he could reclaim SOME honor, because he has nothing but that.

    • TrueFan.site
      TrueFan.site 2 months ago

      @Extra Victory Amazon employee, maybe LOL.

    • TrueFan.site
      TrueFan.site 2 months ago

      That's not how it works. Remember the Mad King and all he did? At the time of the show, there was no Democracy or Rule of Law.

  • Matthieu Le Brun
    Matthieu Le Brun 2 months ago +7

    The bit where Rhea says something about is he going to kill Rhaenyra.
    Basically, he has two options as she sees it. Kill Rhaenyra (and at this point Aegon, the kids, Alicent...), or marry her.
    To marry her, Rhea's in the way.
    That's when she puts two and two together and reaches for her bow.

  • Somewhere Upthere
    Somewhere Upthere 2 months ago +15

    Allicent's dad got sent away because he got trapped by his own schemes. He should have known the King wouldn't have believed him. Maybe Daemon planned it all along? He knew they would be seen and that Otto would find out and tell the King. The king would deny it and out goes Otto. Daemon is brilliant.

    • JM
      JM 2 months ago +2

      Daemon did reveal her hair very deliberately

  • Lucia
    Lucia 2 months ago +12

    "Atop the Hightower, the great beacon fire turned a baleful green as Lord Martyn Hightower called his banners."
    From The Sons of the Dragon chapter in Fire and Blood.

  • Night Josephine
    Night Josephine 2 months ago +60

    I don't see Vicerys' question of how he'll be remembered as "dick measuring". It's mortality. He knows he's dying, he wanted legacy and at least to be remembered fondly by those close to him but is alienated from his brother; his wife is at odds with him suddenly for reasons he doesn't know; the wedding he put on that was initially going well ends in bloodshed and bitterness. The only person he has loyal and close to him is his new Hand.
    It's mortality. I think he's the only character I feel truly sorry for (well, Leana and Leanor too but we've seen less of them).

    • mejuliie
      mejuliie 2 months ago +2

      @hillbillypowpow Given that he comes from a line of conquerors and kings that have reformed the realm, it is only natural to wonder if he did right by them. And wondering what would have been if he were a different person, is completely normal.
      He is dying so these questions/thoughts are going to come up. Viserys has been questioning himself all his reign.
      It is also noteworthy that he asks Lyonel Strong, who he perceives as honest and straight-forward. If it were about his ego, he'd talk to someone who would just tell him what he'd like to hear.

    • 𝙽 𝙾 𝚂 𝚃 𝙰 𝙻 𝙶 𝙸 𝙰
      𝙽 𝙾 𝚂 𝚃 𝙰 𝙻 𝙶 𝙸 𝙰 2 months ago +13

      @Night Josephine i absolutely agree with you. Viserys is actually a very tragic character imo.

    • Night Josephine
      Night Josephine 2 months ago +31

      @hillbillypowpow It's wanting to know your life had meaning. Especially if you rose to a duty that weighed heavily on you and slowly killed you.
      Vicerys wants to believe the choices he made were not in vain and that he will be loved by someone, or at least fondly remembered in posterity. He is starting to recognise, with hindsight, that he should have risen to the tougher decisions. He imagines that having a battle to fight would have forced that out of him. Instead he had existial crises that led to wider conflicts that will outlive him.
      I swear, some of y'all need to grow up and get some other perspectives. I could see this measuring idea if Vicerys wasn't clearly a people pleaser, and wasn't clearly dying.

    • hillbillypowpow
      hillbillypowpow 2 months ago +5

      Craving a legacy is just wanting other peoe to know the measurment

  • Flobl-Bobl
    Flobl-Bobl 2 months ago +38

    I wanted to share my thoughts on how Larys Strong got the information about Ser Cristen. I had this theory since episode 4 because of how the love scene was shot. It was shot as someone’s POV through the patterns thing that separates princesses bedroom from the hidden paths of the castle. My first thought was that the show will soon reveal it was Daemon peeking through. But then this scene between Alicent and Larys happens. And if I’m not mistaken, Larys is known in the books as someone who would know the secret tunnels of the castl and use them to spy on people’s privet life to get more info
    (Sorry if my English is bad)

    • L B
      L B 2 months ago

      @magister343 special officer Doofy!

    • Melancholic Mango
      Melancholic Mango 2 months ago

      @magister343 That would make sense.

    • magister343
      magister343 2 months ago +1

      @Melancholic Mango There is a theory that Larys does not actually have a clubfoot and has never needed his cane, but has been faking it all along. It gives him an excuse to avoid manly activities like hunting or fighting and lets him sit gossiping with the women where he can learn secrets other men don't know. It also means that when he wants to put on a disguise he can ditch the oversized shoe and the cane and just walk normally so that no one could recognize him. In GoT Varys's ability to change his natural gait when wearing disguises is among his most useful skills.

    • Flobl-Bobl
      Flobl-Bobl 2 months ago +1

      @Melancholic Mango thank you) I haven’t thought about that yet. Good question

    • Melancholic Mango
      Melancholic Mango 2 months ago +1

      NIce theory. I'm only wondering how can Larys move about hidden, in silence? Doesn't his leg and cane cause all kinds of noise as he shuffles on?

  • prairieskye
    prairieskye 2 months ago +16

    Love the development of Alicents' character, in the book we are given a sketch. She is learning knowledge is power Agency

  • Evan Nesbitt
    Evan Nesbitt 2 months ago +60

    I feel like Otto himself is genuinely worried for the realm, but he shares the same prejudice of the Great Houses that led Viserys to be king over Rhaenys. I don't think he's as shrewd as Hobert but his scheming is still coming from a place earnestness, twisted as it is

    • Laketwig
      Laketwig 2 months ago

      @Comic Crossing goes to daemon if he has no more heirs.

    • Comic Crossing
      Comic Crossing 2 months ago

      Then he wouldve supported Rhaenyra and not gotten his daughter to produce more heirs. Viserys not producing anymore heirs, and his daughter taking the Iron Throne wouldve been the least chaotic way for the realm to continue. But he wanted a Hightower born kid on the throne.

    • mejuliie
      mejuliie 2 months ago +2

      @Naptown Culer I think it's a mixture of reasons that motivate Otto. There definitely is advancing his families status, even if not always willingly as we see in the scenes with his brother. But he is also worried about a war breaking out. He might not have been so much before, but now the lives of his daughter and grandchildren are involved, which seems to have changed his perspective. Otto knows the court and the tensions between certain houses, he knows that some would never accept a female heir. In this episode it really seems like he is genuinely worried what this will do to the people he loves.

    • Laketwig
      Laketwig 2 months ago

      @W.A.S thanks

    • W.A.S
      W.A.S 2 months ago

      Yes .

  • Lurklen
    Lurklen 2 months ago +54

    I kind of thought Criston's outburst seemed out of place, it went from tension to murder pretty quick (there's also very little reason he wouldn't be charged with murder that I can see) but I think they just didn't want to do another tourney scene. I think they could have done something else though, like a small bout or some other dangerous game where Criston could take things too far, but still have some plausible deniability. Maybe after the dancing a small bout for entertainment or something, a small melee with chosen champions, and the Queen chooses Criston while Rhaenyra about to choose Daemon, is pushed to choose Joffrey.
    Curious one son of house Strong is backing the Queen, and the other the King. Strong is smart.
    I think it is both Laeny's and her mother on the Red Queen. Looks like two heads to me.

    • EssJai
      EssJai 2 months ago +1

      Completely agree. I feel the same. There was nothing in his character buildup to point towards him behaving such a way. Was very out of place

    • Lurklen
      Lurklen 2 months ago

      @F Flanman Yeah, that's a fair read. It just felt like it came on fast. If he'd gone ham in the middle of a melee, after having to stew in it for couple of days, wondering if Lonmouth had said anything, watching the betrothed from a distance, and then finally snapping and killing a man in what should have been sport, I'd buy it more (and it wouldn't feel like he's just going to go weirdly unpunished).

    • Ole Nickel
      Ole Nickel 2 months ago

      A cop on duty kills a man. And you expect him to be charged with murder? Now THAT would be a plot hole.

    • F Flanman
      F Flanman 2 months ago +2

      I don't think it was that out of place if we read him as a character who's honour is his highest purpose. He is now trapped, unable to continue to live with himself for soiling his vows, yet unable to escape. Guilt can drive a person mad. I understand him somewhat, because whilst I'm not a person with violent impulses, I do have an extremely hard time coping with even mild feelings of guilt. The dissonance that arises when the person you want to be and think you are yet a certain action or behaviour of yours doesn't align with that is painful for someone with integrity. It's hard to bear because you can start to feel like you don't know who you are/recognise yourself anymore.
      I think those feelings were building, his last hope of escape was rejected by Rhaenyra and then on top of that he had to watch her and all the powerful noblemen and women of the realm celebrate her new marriage whilst he stood there, powerless and disgraced. I think his overreaction was shocking but not far fetched.

    • Lurklen
      Lurklen 2 months ago

      @Matthieu Le Brun Yeah, Criston is kind of hapless. He also took her refusal in the worst way possible. It's not like she can easily dump that responsibility (would he really respect her if she had?). She wanted to keep him as her "White Knight", she obviously still cared for him. Did it mean he'd have a little house on a hill full of mildly insane white haired kids? No, but he'd already sworn that away. He'd at least have the love of his Queen, and a place at her side, a place he was sworn to be anyways. (And if it didn't last forever, then he'd go back to the way things were before. She's not like to out him.)
      But he didn't really love her I think. Maybe he had an infatuation, but when things got weird it was about assuaging his honour, dealing with his forsaken oath. He was so far up his own ass he didn't even think she'd say no, or what to do with himself if he did.
      Jeoffery was an astute observer of human behavior. Except for deciding to approach a guy he had never met, who had everything to lose by having his secret affair disclosed and having no real protection should that guy have a problem with what he said lol.

  • LaMarco
    LaMarco 2 months ago +17

    There was so much going on, we're not even talking about Laena "seducing" Daemon.

  • roblinssen88
    roblinssen88 2 months ago +29

    One question after last week's episode was: who sent the tea to Rhaenerys? With Larys Clubfoot being a player who's aware the tea was being sent, why would a logical answer to the first question not be that he sent the tea? From a player's perspective that created conflict and it offered him the opportunity to drive a wedge between Alicent and Rhaenyra AND it would ensure trust from Alicent into him.

    • VodeAn Kandosii
      VodeAn Kandosii 2 months ago +6

      Viserys sent the tea. Lyonel Strong is Hand, so he could know, and Larys probably found out from his dad.

    • Ash Benamti
      Ash Benamti 2 months ago +1

      That is such a good take, it likely could have been Lyonel Strong who sent it if Viserys made him hand the same night or he learned it from the maester. There is so much that is left ambiguous.

  • Slirix
    Slirix 2 months ago +70

    Well the symbolism with the rats is about the maesters. Several characters in the main books, call them grey rats.

    • Dudemandudeman19
      Dudemandudeman19 2 months ago

      The maesters are the one character/group of characters I have yet to find anything redeeming about and are my most hated people so far in this show.

    • mejuliie
      mejuliie 2 months ago +1

      @epicLEKLE Ser Pounce to the rescue!! 😼

    • epicLEKLE
      epicLEKLE 2 months ago +2

      It could also hint a need for rat catchers. Hence, foreshadowing blood and cheese

    • F Flanman
      F Flanman 2 months ago +1

      I agree but i think it's layered, its the Maesters but its also the corruption and decay that is creeping into the Targaryen dynasty.

    • mejuliie
      mejuliie 2 months ago +10

      Definitely! It's pretty apparent that Grand Maester Mellos wasn't interested in actually healing Viserys - when his student/acolyte suggested some purple paste that might help the king more than the leeches, Mellos dismissed him. We see this happening a couple times before, just felt very obvious to me this time.

  • Liam Tonkin
    Liam Tonkin 2 months ago +87

    Weird how House of the Dragon is probably going to end up being much more consistent as a whole than Game of Thrones was.

    • Nicole Munoz
      Nicole Munoz 12 days ago


    • Liam Tonkin
      Liam Tonkin 2 months ago

      @FreeF Free The source material is finished so they aren't going to run out of material and they are apparently only planning to have three to four seasons. The fact that it's based on something that is actually finished and is much smaller in scale will go a long way to making it more consistent (keeping in mind that being more consistent doesn't mean it has to be as good as GOT was at its best, rather it would just have to not be as bad as GOT turned out).

    • K
      K 2 months ago +1

      @Liam Tonkin You make an incredibly good point about it being smaller in scale and more contained. I think you've won me over so long as the writers pull through given that GoT is much more complex as you've said.

    • Liam Tonkin
      Liam Tonkin 2 months ago +1

      @K I think having an actual outline to follow and a story that is much smaller in scale will make it much more consistent in the long run. Being more consistent than GOT doesn't necessarily mean that it will be as good as GOT was at it's very best, just that I don't see the quality dipping quite as drastically as it did for GOT. The Dance of the Dragons is an ambitious thing to adapt, but consider the fact that it's based on a chunk of one book (not even the whole thing) and it's nowhere near as ambitious as trying to adapt a sprawling fantasy epic like ASOIAF (known for having almost as many unfinished plot threads as it does characters) when it isn't even finished.

    • K
      K 2 months ago

      @Liam Tonkin it was good up until after season 5 bc lack of material but it's still early for HotD to be definitively good. It all depends on after 1 whole season to give a good idea bc guidelines are only good if they're followed through with by veteran screenwriters and you really can't tell whether they'll commit to more than a few seasons or even 1 season. Like the showrunner Sapochick who has literally left HotD after season 1. Writers make or break it regardless of outlines.
      The reason they failed GoT is bc the writers were burnt out after 8 seasons and presumably the good ones had already left to pursue other opportunities and a lack of ASOIAF writing material. Also GoT was 8 seasons long so the longer a series is the harder it is to maintain writing creativity and consistency.
      If HotD follows a long series with 5+ seasons, it falls within this pattern. It does show strong promise but again it's only 5 episodes.

  • Brady Miller
    Brady Miller 2 months ago +43

    With respect to Daemon being regarded as both a hero and villain, there are many historical examples of people we would largely consider villainous now who were seen as heroes in their time. One prime example is Richard the Lionheart, who was known for his love of brutality and violence, and basically used his kingdom as a money machine to fight in an overseas war for nothing but his own personal glory, and yet was seen by his people as a courageous, pious warrior-king.

    • Greywolf757
      Greywolf757 2 months ago +1

      Richard the Lionheart still has a good reputation among those who don't know his full history, which is most people.

    • Unfinished CGI
      Unfinished CGI 2 months ago +3

      @Konrad von Schnitzeldorf Seems like England has a pretty effektive education system too.

    • Konrad von Schnitzeldorf
      Konrad von Schnitzeldorf 2 months ago

      A king that wasn't a warrior wasn't worth much at that time. England just had a pretty effektive way of taxation.

    • Ash Benamti
      Ash Benamti 2 months ago

      So true, people forget that history is written by winners and positives are more focused on than negatives. Queen Elizabeth Tudor killed more people than her father did for example.

  • Corrine Romero
    Corrine Romero 2 months ago +6

    I think Cristen cant afford to be "chill." You know like Laenor's sexuality is kind of an open secret but hes kind of untouchable. Plenty of people know Rhaenyra is not a virgin but shes untouchable. People know (or assume) Daemon killed his wife but hes also untouchable. For Cristen though he has to beg to be executed instead of tortured because hes not untouchable. I think goes back to the idea of "of no consequence/no consequences" from last episode. The royal family play their little political games and everyone else suffers.

  • Talk-supersix-seven
    Talk-supersix-seven 2 months ago +43

    The reason ser criston “wasn’t chill” and “took himself too seriously” can seem that way if we ignore the imbalance in the position of the knight of kisses (Joffrey) vs Ser criston.
    Joffrey is of privelege and at ease, if his secret propagates all he will face is embarrassment.
    Ser Criston Cole if his secret is spread he will face being gelded/ having his pillar flayed… Tortured to death.
    So some pampered guy working his way up to criston when he’s already on the verge of a breakdown and saying “I know your secret, I may expose it” and holding it against him, that probably sent him over the edge.
    So I think people miss that they’re in different situations when they say “oh why couldn’t he relax about it”.

    • Gadget-Walkmen
      Gadget-Walkmen 2 months ago

      Exactly and not only that, Joffrey was defiantly was pushing Crispin to watch out to make sure they both get keep their secrets a SECRET and that set Crispin OFF because it goes against his values and notion of what a honorable knight is supposed to be.
      They left it also a bit ambiguous on purpose with so much happening with so many characters. It leaves the question of if Crispin finally snapped under all the pressure or did Joffrey poke the bear too much about the situation on how they got into a fight.

    • F Flanman
      F Flanman 2 months ago +4

      Exactly. People are forgetting to factor in the huge difference between our time and theirs. Criston is a low born man who attained an honour that means more to him than his life. Those using and taunting him will never face consequences as severe as he will, because they are high born.

    • Kauswe Kazilimani
      Kauswe Kazilimani 2 months ago +4

      Also I don't think he's sense of honour envisioned him essential being just like Joffery for the rest of his life.

    • mejuliie
      mejuliie 2 months ago +12

      So true.
      If he had been a bro, and told Cole that he understands how difficult/dangerous their position is and that he'll have his and Rhaenyra's back, maybe he'd still have a face.

  • Maester Drew
    Maester Drew 2 months ago +12

    Props for giving a shoutout to all the awesome ASOIAF channels! Especially Radio Westeros, who have to be the most underrated ASOIAF channel

  • KaritKtana
    KaritKtana 2 months ago +7

    I wanted to give some benefit of the doubt to Daemon for not actually doing anything to Rhea until her unforced error with the horse, but he came dressed as cartoon Assassin's Creed, so what the hell are we supposed to think he was there to do??

    • Greywolf757
      Greywolf757 2 months ago +1

      As Alt Shift X said last episode, if you dress in a hood, your are up to no good.

  • Your Wrong
    Your Wrong 2 months ago +2

    Your high emotional intelligence is on full display in this episode. Really well done man, especially concerning the nature of trauma and the cycle of abuse.

  • Tartufo Tartufo
    Tartufo Tartufo 2 months ago +11

    1:30:14 "I will express this the only way I know how, with me fists!" That's actually Cristen Cole's internal monologue from the books.

    • Tartufo Tartufo
      Tartufo Tartufo 2 months ago +1

      1:47:40 " I respect the power of my fists." He also said that, yep.

  • Candace Crosby
    Candace Crosby 2 months ago +16

    I always love your content. You're my favorite analysis to watch because you're so knowledgeable about the world, and also because you're so pleasant to listen to. Many other channels, and even the Official HotD podcast might be knowledgeable, but they're so obnoxious to listen to that I don't find them worth it sometimes. So thank you for that!

  • yechiel sulzbacher
    yechiel sulzbacher 2 months ago +19

    I think that the reason the hightowers would want the king dead is because if Rhaenyra has children it weakens their claim

  • Unworshipediety
    Unworshipediety 2 months ago +39

    It's funny seeing how folks are like _"Maybe Daemon didn't intend to kill her at first..."_ I mean he's there standing cloaked and looking evil, literally spooks the horse, grabs it by the reigns so Rhea falls off with the horse falling on top of her, and then kills her in the end. _"But maybe if she didn't insult him after he nearly killed her..."_ Well, if someone just had their neck snapped and couldn't move their limbs, they would at the very least tell the person who did that to them to, go ___ themselves. Great scene though, I think the love affair many people had with Daemon is somewhat altered now for better or for worse. Love this show!

    • Kaue Tadaieski
      Kaue Tadaieski 2 months ago

      Because the showrunners said Its ambiguous. Go check It and insult that folk.

    • Unworshipediety
      Unworshipediety 2 months ago

      @Lucas Gomes lol, yep!

    • Lucas Gomes
      Lucas Gomes 2 months ago +4

      He's literally doing the hooded Kermit meme

  • abraxas365
    abraxas365 2 months ago +3

    Queen Aliscent's entrance was one for the ages!
    Her controlled footsteps made her appear to float as she slid toward the dais, like a Queen on a chess board. She moved in a straight line toward Visyerys, then went at a 45 degree angle, like a Queen making a diagonal move.
    And the music was 🤌 - like a waltz.

    TREASURE WINBANG 2 months ago +25

    Rhaenyra hasn't shown anything that says she would be a ruler far superior to Aegon. She is in denial of how weak her claim is and does nothing to try and strengthen it, she doesn't create allies and just assumes people would support her because she is the first born child and the lords were forced to bend the knee. She just does what she wants when I think she should be making friends with the lords and ladies or even help the common folk. It begs the question that is all this conflict and threat of war really worth it just to put Rhaenyra on the throne?

    • Alice Deligny
      Alice Deligny 2 months ago

      @Ash Benamti I think they expect she would be another Rhaena Targaryen. Rhaena resented Jaehaerys and Alysanne for taking her place on the throne (she considered that as she was older she could be Queen regnant) but she never harmed them and just wandered in the kingdom with her dragon. They think that she would concede to her brother's claim if pressed to, because she's a woman. But of course, it's a miscalculation.

    • Rayeya
      Rayeya 2 months ago

      Yeah she comes off as an annoying nagging kid going through a phase.

    • Ash Benamti
      Ash Benamti 2 months ago +2

      I blame it on Viserys really, he makes her his heir but teaches her NOTHING on being a ruler. At least Daemon showed her a bit on what the smallfolk's opinions were. But one thing I think the Hightowers fucked up on was misunderstanding how bad the civil war would be on the chance she would be bad or kill her siblings. If they had waited for her to mess up or sabotage her rule to make her look bad, then the whole realm would be against her. War is inevitable in game of thrones no matter what. There was a war over a broken betrothal with Jenny of Oldstones.

    • OreRound PvP
      OreRound PvP 2 months ago +3

      That's the whole reason why conflict is inevitable in this show. They could theoretically secure alliances enough to ensure stability post Viserys death but the personal flaws of these characters ensure that won't happen.
      Viserys feels guilt for Aemmas death so won't disinherit Rhaenyra, he also promised that he wouldn't and after knowing Otto Hightowers scheme to send Alicent to comfort him he might not want Aegon to be king for that reason also. Rhaenyra is immature and uneducated in the realm of politics and right now the aura of Targaryen infallibility is still strong because of dragons so she doesn't believe anyone would challenge her claim. Not realising that if Aegon (who also has dragons) forces his claim then everything gets a whole lot more complicated and fucked up.

    • Dyl
      Dyl 2 months ago +4

      I mean she pretty much publicly insulted Lady Redwyne at the hunt and then insulted Lord Dondarrion and the Blackwood boy during her tour to find a husband. She's also involved in an incestuous sex scandal with her very unpopular uncle that people don't like.
      She's not diplomatic or tactful and the closer she gets to Daemon the more she adopts the "Targaryen's are the superior bloodline" and "I have a dragon I can do whatever I want" attitude he has which ultimately leads to people hating you and not wanting you to rule.

  • Jimmothybiz
    Jimmothybiz 2 months ago +3

    Does ayone feel like seeing the Daemon-Rhaenyra interaction could have been the last straw for Criston? I immediately interpreted it that way on first watch, but my partner didn't and I haven't really seen much people comment on it on different channels...

  • Cruz L
    Cruz L 2 months ago +16

    Given everything Otto really isn't all that bad. Hear me out lol. I think he made valid points about the fact that Rhaenyra would not be accepted as the queen despite the fealty sworn by the lords. We even saw it in episode 4, already the people have began to turn on her and Aegon was only what like 2. If she is made queen, regardless if aegon existed or not, there would have been some type of war. Because Aegon exists, Otto made a point being that to maintain control over the kingdoms she would have to demonstrate her power over them. This could be by directly attacking said kingdoms or by possibly affecting Aegon's future. I feel like the show on face value is representing the hightowers as villains, but really they're just subjects of the realm and pretty accurate descriptions of how the public views the royal family.

    • FreeF Free
      FreeF Free 2 months ago +1

      @MrXilemo Only the Baby Targaryen has a Dragon on his side and they are both babies! Rhaenyra has 4 adult mature Dragons on her side!

    • MrXilemo
      MrXilemo 2 months ago +1

      @FreeF Free what do you mean? If there is a war both sides have dragons and shits gonna hit the fan.
      It seems like it's gonna be Targaryen vs Targaryen once king Viserys dies

    • FreeF Free
      FreeF Free 2 months ago

      If there is a war, one side has dragons and the other side doesn't.

    • 77sheep
      77sheep 2 months ago +3

      i think maybe this is you ascribing the usual 'ok here are the good guys and here are the bad guys' that most stories have to this show. i dont think that most people see them as flat out villains in the way euron was in the show or victarion in the books. theres plenty of moments where alicent and otto are humanized by showing alicent's nail-biting and otto's capacity for familial love.

  • Happa
    Happa 2 months ago +11

    You could see Laena riding Vhagar in the preview of episode 6. Can't wait to see her on screen

  • Bn Cbcbbc
    Bn Cbcbbc 2 months ago +8

    larys is most likely doing what his father told him to do. knowing from episode 2 that lyonel doesn’t entirely support rhanerya as heir provides some insight as to why he might want alcient to know rhanerya’s secrets.

  • Braezonday
    Braezonday 2 months ago +2

    Best ASOIAF commentary channel/filmmaker in the game right now💯 thank you for all you do!

  • KaiGonGinn
    KaiGonGinn 2 months ago +14

    I think daemon knows that if he owns his crimes, then he gains an aura of immunity every time he gets away with it. The first time he backs down and claims innocence is when that aura cracks because everyone knows he'd only do so out of fear.

    • Greywolf757
      Greywolf757 2 months ago

      He didn't admit to killing his wife.

  • Kaydee
    Kaydee 2 months ago +4

    I absolutely love the scene between Alicent and Otto. He is right and the hug meant everything. I honestly didn’t know if he even liked her but that showed in his own way he does love her. I’d argue there are better ways but we do have confirmation he cares.
    Also Daemon’s silence throughout the entirety of his scene with his wife is powerful. Matt Smith? I think that is his name is a superb actor.