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Rhaegar: was Jon’s father the true hero of Game of Thrones?

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  • Published on Nov 26, 2022

Comments • 6 914

  • d olive80
    d olive80 3 years ago +7499

    What a brilliant mind George has. This world he created with all its history and characters is incredible.

  • Vicious Clam
    Vicious Clam 8 months ago +577

    There's another little piece of evidence toward Jon Snow being Azor Ahai that wasn't mentioned in the video. Part of the prophecy says that Azor Ahai will be born beneath a bleeding star. Ser Arthur Dayne died while protecting Lyanna Stark during Jon Snow's birth. The sigil of house Dayne is a sword and a shooting star, and Ser Arthur Dayne was known as the Sword of the Morning. Ser Arthur Dayne was a star that bled on the day of Jon Snow's birth.

    • billyd2020
      billyd2020 14 days ago +3

      @Mahan Tarigati tbh it does say bleeding star not dead star

    • The High Host
      The High Host 24 days ago

      This is a classy interpretation of this item of the prophecy.

    • Gaspare Di Rosa
      Gaspare Di Rosa Month ago +1

      After so long. Mind blown 😮

    • In House Films
      In House Films Month ago +3

      Leave some knowledge for us chief

    • UTHQ
      UTHQ Month ago +2

      Damnnnnn🥵🥵🥵🥵

  • blacmadesjb 2750
    blacmadesjb 2750 3 years ago +1555

    Rhaegar is probably one of the most interesting characters in the entire show that we only see through a vision for a few seconds. I'd really like to see the story of Roberts rebellion and the events leading up to it play out in a prequel series

    • LyricalAgentVideoUK
      LyricalAgentVideoUK 11 days ago

      @Chris Smith Dance of the dragons saga is most definitely 200 years before mad King Aireys and Roberts rebellion

    • Chris Smith
      Chris Smith 11 days ago

      @LyricalAgentVideoUK no, Rhagar is the mad King's son. cant be 200 years before

    • Chris Smith
      Chris Smith 11 days ago

      @Nathan Craft I wish!!

    • Joshua Gillotte
      Joshua Gillotte 29 days ago

      I think they were going to and then.... Why not go back even further ? More entertainment and more money to be made. I'm sure we will see Roberts rebellion in house of the dragon season 8

    • ShowtimeBruin
      ShowtimeBruin 2 months ago +1

      We need a prequel on Robert’s rebellion and Aegon’s Conquest.

  • Maksym Hnatyuk
    Maksym Hnatyuk 3 years ago +3167

    Wish i could see Catelyns face, when she realizes that Jon is not the bastard, but true heir to the iron throne.

    • Rania Minhas
      Rania Minhas 6 days ago

      @Ankunge ASOIAF is much more complex than that. Maegor the Cruel who had dragons, was the son of the conquer and rose Balerion the dread couldn’t even have the faith agree to his polygamous marriages.
      What could Rhaegar even do? The faith only allows annulment under very specific circumstances. The most common being if it was never consummated. And I’m pretty sure Elia and Rhaegar consumated their marriage given their 2 kids.
      If anything had they all lived the faith would have rejected Lyanna and bastardise Jon

    • Lisa Raynor
      Lisa Raynor 19 days ago

      I'm sure she turned over in her grave

    • Genji Main
      Genji Main 22 days ago

      @MysticDragonWolf *legitimization*

    • mojo schmee
      mojo schmee 24 days ago

      Would she have felt worse for her treatment of Jon, or her admonishments of her noble husband?

    • The High Host
      The High Host 24 days ago

      He's still a bastard, but coming from Southlands.

  • Kaen Ban
    Kaen Ban 2 years ago +2756

    "Arya stark killed the night king"
    Rhaegar: "I've tried so hard and got so far but in the end it doesn't even matter" 😂

    • A Guy With A Lot Of Opinions
      A Guy With A Lot Of Opinions 14 days ago

      @víctor cachón pérez 🤣

    • A Guy With A Lot Of Opinions
      A Guy With A Lot Of Opinions 14 days ago

      @James Karlson bro don’t defend season 8

    • Allister Field
      Allister Field 14 days ago

      @Vee S they didnt frget shit, they literally ended tthe series because they got a jobat marvel and didnt care any more for GoT due to all that MCU money that went up their asses

    • C4b1nGER
      C4b1nGER 16 days ago

      @James Karlson my only complain is: when you kill a khal you become the khal. dothraki must serve jon :P

    • dbguinesstx
      dbguinesstx 29 days ago +1

      Jon also gave Arya “Needle” and did encourage her to learn and train…

  • SSPspaz
    SSPspaz 3 years ago +3569

    "The things I do for love" could've just as easily been uttered by Rhaegar just before destroying the entirety of Westeros through the consequences of his actions. As Maester Aemon said, "Love is the death of duty".

    • Cloud Lion
      Cloud Lion 3 days ago

      Love is duty. To separate them is like separating day from night. There is no art without love and no satisfaction without duty.

    • Epic God Lux
      Epic God Lux Month ago

      In order to save Westeros he had to end the Targaryen line. Destroy the fire to destroy the ice. He first destroyed the fire (House Targaryen.) Then he destroyed the ice (Others/White Walkers) by way of his offspring by Lynna Stark

    • Tsar
      Tsar 2 months ago

      @DJSPOONAROONI When people choose who you should marry, the love is often not mutual.. and its still happening today, Your family cant reject someone in a Mercedes for someone in a KIA.
      People love comfort

    • DJSPOONAROONI
      DJSPOONAROONI 2 months ago

      Well back in the medieval days you married who the house told you to. Sometimes it wasn’t who you loved. And sometimes people tried to fight the system. That’s why all the wars back then were mainly over women

    • Tsar
      Tsar 2 months ago +1

      It was this kind of Love that destroyed the great kingdom of TROY too

  • king_big_pp
    king_big_pp 3 years ago +1849

    "His actions led to Jon, who may be the hero who saves the world."
    Turns out he's pretty inconsequential and just repeats stuff like "Yur my queen" and "I dunt want it"

    • lucca ferla
      lucca ferla 24 days ago

      @A A the madness came from breeding brothers to sisters and various other interfamily marriages not her experiences. She loses what, four people and thats enough to tip her over, come on.

    • Melissa Rose
      Melissa Rose Month ago

      I believe they changed this ruining the prophesy because they knew they would get flak for making Dani go all mad king and for having no large contributions from the women in the show.

    • QualityPen
      QualityPen 6 months ago +1

      @mirekchance That wasn’t the first time she acted cruelly. She crucified people from slave families at random, betrayed the slavers who sold her the Unsullied, fed random ex-slavers to dragons as a form of terrorism and interrogation. She murdered prisoners of war who refused to join her.
      In most cases people root because most of her victims had it coming, but if you step back and think about it objectively, she is frequently unjust and cruel.
      Not that any of this matters in a Medieval world. Sacking and even razing cities which resisted in sieges was basically the rule, not the exception in our world.
      Dany burning King’s Landing was cruel, unnecessary, and stupid… But it makes no sense for her to earn the monicker of “Mad Queen” for doing what most warlords in our history have done to defeated cities.

    • mirekchance
      mirekchance 6 months ago

      @A A They had some issues in the family. And the traits are typically passed down, good and bad traits, that is....
      Her brother was clearly not quite right. She was fine, for the most part. I don't know what I would do if I lost my "child" dragon and than my BBF. But, I wouldn't take my anger out on innocent people. That move was even counter productive....for her reign and she knew that...
      Had Jon just stayed/married her, she wouldn't have done it.

    • Zane Harris
      Zane Harris 6 months ago

      @how ya Doin mate 😂😂

  • ezet
    ezet 3 years ago +8009

    And after all this it's just arya who ninja-dagger-one-shots the whole white walker army

    • Steven Federico
      Steven Federico 11 days ago

      How pathetic 🙄

    • ha ha
      ha ha 13 days ago

      Hbo made that shit

    • Defcon 2
      Defcon 2 18 days ago

      @Acer she’s a little girl. That scene was the only believable one Arya had since getting to Bravos.
      She was trained to be a silent assassin that kills unsuspecting people. She was not trained to fight the undead and she should’ve died when the Waith stabbed her like five times through the stomach and threw her into a literal river of shit - someone that had the exact same talents that were honed far far longer than Arya.
      She is the only character in Game of Thrones that has serious plot armor.

    • MarkCFerg
      MarkCFerg 26 days ago

      It hurts even now

    • Rosso The'Crimson
      Rosso The'Crimson 29 days ago

      🤢🤮🤮🤮🤮 It was just the dumbass DD team trying to appease to Disney with a girl power finish. "See Disney we can do it too! Like Ray!" 🙄🙄🙄🙄

  • dikka-san
    dikka-san Year ago +543

    "he plunged his sword into her conceiving Jon" absolute poetry

  • tabulldog27
    tabulldog27 2 years ago +469

    The thing that confuses me most in this is Lyanna. If she found out that her (and to a much greater extent Rhaegar's) actions led to her father and brother being grotesquely killed by the Mad King, why would she in any way still stay with him? Not only that, but her own brother Ned was now fighting a war against Aerys II, and was in danger everyday of being killed on the battlefield. Either she never found out (Rhaegar purposefully never told her, despite finding out from Gerold Hightower who was there when Rickard and Brandon were killed, which is rape by deception) or she found out but still was kept at the Tower of Joy, perhaps against her will. From the characterization of Lyanna (headstrong, willfull, dedicated tomboy, etc), it would seem that she would've at least attempted an escape, but was prevented by the Kingsguard. Whatever happened, this does not make Rhaegar look good at all. In my opinion, Rhaegar is most definitely not the true hero of Game of Thrones, Ned is, because after all of Rhaegar's bad decisions, Ned made the choice to save an innocent child, raised him right, and set him on the course to be a good person in a world that too often eats them up.

    • Mr Humble
      Mr Humble 29 days ago

      @ABULHASAN ALIFAAIZ he actually beat the lannisters, the only reason he didn't is because Sansa was a little girl and ran and told the Queen.
      Tywin was actually an idiot, would be completely dominated by Remly and Rob Stark if not for Stannis and a magic ghost monster he had no knowledge of.
      Then was little fingers idea to hook him up with the Tyrells to save him from Stannis (again ghost monster)
      Then gets his dumb ass killed because he doesn't see his son would save his brother, who would want revenge on him smh...

    • Connaeris
      Connaeris 2 months ago +3

      @No body the only reason he did that was because of the prophecy. Love and lust are not enough, as history tells us. Franz Joseph's son and his mistress ran away and died, but he had mental health problems.

    • No body
      No body 2 months ago

      @Connaeris his father casted him away into exile and Ned was following Robert's personal vendetta on every Targaryen, not to mention Robert was obsessed with a woman that did not care for him, what other choice did he have? Context mathers.

    • Connaeris
      Connaeris 2 months ago +4

      @No body it is not known if he really married Lyanna in the books, and also he technically couldn't divorce Elia like that since the marriage had obviously been consummated. And while it was common for men to bed other women, they didn't run away with them like Rhaegar did.

    • No body
      No body 2 months ago +3

      @Connaeris it was as common as day for nobleman to "bed" other woman, literally 90% did, but Rhaegar was actually restrained in that sense, cause he only slept with both of then as far as we know and married both, so judging by their standards he was actually "decent".

  • J K
    J K Year ago +151

    While I think the last theory is correct, I am certain Rhaegar didn’t know it. He never thought he was going to die at the Trident as he planned to make changes on his return. Rhaegar likely had prophetic dreams but those are always misinterpreted and cause the person to take actions that cause the prophecy to come true, but not in the way they intended.

  • George P
    George P 3 years ago +181

    hopefully in the prequels we see more of the targaryen house. They are the most fascinating and powerful house in Westeros, shame we only saw viserys and daenerys in the show

    • Arya Biss
      Arya Biss 3 months ago +1

      @Mohammad Syazwan Literally one of the most interesting characters, that many people like to look over

    • Lucía Mota
      Lucía Mota 7 months ago +3

      For me the most interesting Houses are the Starks for their connection with the WW. The Daynes cause I am totally convinced they are related to the Great Empire of the Dawn and hopefully they'll be Martin's big revelation in the upcoming books. Also the whole Ironborn lore is interesting af.
      If only GRRM and HBO knew how to exploit the whole world instead of focusing in "wOOoow, bOoOmM DrAGonS"...

    • Rohit Kr
      Rohit Kr 9 months ago +3

      House Martell got a lucky shot that's it...did you forget about the dragon worth...aegon and visneya brought after meraxes was killed??

    • xbarbarian
      xbarbarian Year ago +2

      Boom! 2 years later

    • Mohammad Syazwan
      Mohammad Syazwan 2 years ago +15

      Dont forget Maester aemon also

  • Shintia RIva
    Shintia RIva 2 years ago +159

    I don’t see how can anyone possibly see Rheager as a hero. Even if John become an important character in saving the GOT universe in the book, it would basically be a unintended good consequences of a terrible action. Whether Rheager loved Lyanna or not he knew in medieval even eloping with a maiden without the permission of the father/brother was an offense of kidnapping and dishonorable. Brandon’s reaction to his sister’s disappearance was very realistic for that time period. Mad king killing the starks was just final nail in the coffin, Rheager have already dishonored three family (Starks, Martells and Baratheon) there was no way his actions was not going to create chaos.

    • ok dude
      ok dude 2 months ago +1

      If jon snow saves the world from white walkers it was worth it its like dr strange seeing only one possible move to get the good outcome.

    • No body
      No body 2 months ago +1

      You're forgeting to account for such basic things.. Paper thin argumentation.

    • Mr. Dutch
      Mr. Dutch 2 months ago +2

      Plus, they did it pretty stupidly. Did Rhegar think that the Starks would simply forget about Lyana? Why didn't he at least send a message to the north, clearly the Starks would be quite angry, but certainly not as much as when he made it look like he kidnapped Lyana.

    • blacklion816
      blacklion816 2 months ago

      🤷🏾‍♂️ men do a lot a stupid shit over vagina 🤷🏾‍♂️

    • Moh Khan11
      Moh Khan11 6 months ago

      This. He was a nutjob who believed in prophecy left his sick wife who had 2 kids behind with a teenager

  • The Program
    The Program 2 years ago +92

    I love these videos. One clarification: you mention Jon rising amidst salt and smoke, beneath a bleeding star. It's worth mentioning that, forget the tears as a metaphor, the tunnels underneath Castle Black are FILLED with salt. The Jon chapters repeatedly go out of their way to talk about how that's the one thing they're not short of, so much so that even as I was reading it, I was thinking of the "salt and smoke" prophecy.
    My guess is that Jon's resurrection is going to take a LOT longer than it did in the series. The reason is simply story logic. You don't show the readers an impossibly huge wall of ice at the edge of the world to keep impending doom away in Act One without having that wall come crashing down by Act Three. It's Checkhov's Wall; it's GOING to come down, in spectacular fashion.
    We don't want that to be Jon's fault, now do we? As it kind of was in the show. So Jon spends a year dead for tax reasons, while other idiots run the Night's Watch, bring the wall down, and let the Others come pouring through. THEN you rez Jon to save the day.
    In fact, I don't think the Others will be stopped until they're south of the Neck. GRRM has made a point of how Moat Cailin can't be defended against an attack from the north, the dead are immune to frog poison, and the swampy terrain of the Neck is no impediment when it's frozen solid (in fact, I think the Freys will get their comeuppance at the hands of the Others, who can likewise freeze the Trident and eliminate the Twins' biggest defensive advantage). If GRRM stems that tide before the Others march into the Southern kingdoms, then you have the same problem they had on the show: that the looming menace of the Others is a nothingburger if the Others aren't shown actually rampaging across Westeros. You want the people of the Reach and the Stormlands wailing that they never should have wasted their armies fighting one another, you want to show those warm lands frozen over and starving. Otherwise, the threat is stopped while it's still largely hypothetical.
    Having the Others make it that far South gives GRRM a chance to show all those other would-be Azor Ahais throwing themselves at the Others and being beaten. Cersei dithers and bumps off her allies. Stannis tries and fails. King "Aegon", the Mummer's Dragon, tries and fails. The Seven and their High Sparrow fail. Rhyllor and Stannis/Dondarrion fail. People start getting sick of hidden Targaryen pretenders, miraculous resurrections, ruling Queens, and Princes(cesses) Who Were Promised. Jon and Dany become Chosen One number 8 or 9, and nobody believes anymore. Partly because they've been disappointed several times, and partly because people who were inclined to believe are already dead from following some previous Chosen One. The closest thing to a chosen one who gets any traction is Euron the Cthulu-Pirate, who doesn't give a fig about fighting the Others.
    Anyway, THAT is how things get GRRM-level dark. Dark enough that the one man who can save the day is Jon. And/or Dany. And maybe Arya, too. They emerge at the very end of Winds of Winter, then spend Dream of Spring fighting/resolving the conflict with the Others. Though I don't see how GRRM can fit all that necessary fail into one book.

    • The Program
      The Program Month ago +3

      @Kushagra Agrawal Good point. Two answers. First, up at the wall, he'd be frozen solid. "Ice preserves, fire consumes," as Maester Aemon put it. Second, the books give us several styles of resurrection. Maybe Jon's will include healing.
      A third answer just occurred to me. Maybe Jon DOES come back with his spirit intact (thanks to his Warging second life) but his body all zombified and ruined. Maybe that's the price he pays, and forces him north of the Wall at the end of the story, the new Jack Frost / King of Winter who keeps the Others at bay while Bran as John Barleycorn / Summer King rules westeros. (The word "bran" is related to grain, and of course Jon Snow ~= Jack Frost.) This is Lucifer Means Lightbringer stuff, so definitely see his channel for details. His predictions tracked enough with the show that I think some are pseudo-confirmed at this point, with D&D giving us a super-abbreviated and somewhat botched version of GRRM's original vision. It could mean that you're right that Jon Snow is sufficiently decayed that, when the war is all over, he will HAVE to live in the farthest North, not because he's rejoined the Watch, but because it's the only place cold enough that he won't decay and fall apart altogether.

    • Kushagra Agrawal
      Kushagra Agrawal Month ago +3

      lady stoneheart was resurrected two days after she had originally died. Because so much time had passed; she was barely alive when she came back and could barely speak. She was basically a half zombie. So no Jon cannot be resurrected after an entire year. Any thing more than 2 or 3 days and he is gone for good probably

    • The Green Stalker • 19 years ago
      The Green Stalker • 19 years ago 3 months ago

      You also have to remember, there is a guy possibly turning into a kraken at lannisport. The story is complicated as there so much conflicts at every part of the world

    • Tobi Chenzhuo
      Tobi Chenzhuo 6 months ago

      You talkin bout Aegon VI aka Young Griff? Because he did not fail, he took the Iron Throne. Btw if Aegon I or Robert Baratheon etc. could just take the throne everyone else could do the same and in case of success, be the 'rightful' heir to the throne. The TV Show fucked up most of the book lore anyway.

  • Aditi Prasun
    Aditi Prasun Year ago +86

    I really want a spin-off where they show the life of Rhaegar

    • David Johnson
      David Johnson Month ago +3

      Well… you almost got your wish. Close but not quite.

  • Lavindu Siyambalapitiya
    Lavindu Siyambalapitiya 3 years ago +3514

    Bro this is way too complicated for D&D

    • The Midnight Library
      The Midnight Library Year ago

      @Glesonia Dennis dumb&dumber

    • MishimaPizza
      MishimaPizza Year ago

      @The Program ya they were just idiots. they changed so much stuff to appeal to common tv tropes that it made the conclusions the books are most likely going to arrive at nonsensical

    • Bakugou Katsuki DynaMight
      Bakugou Katsuki DynaMight Year ago +1

      Also not having books to go off of isn't a viable alibi... Literally every fan that ripped into s8 came up with a better emdeing lol... Also killing Barristan Selmy was dumb he could have been killed at kings landing battle which would have led to Denaerys becoming mad... Or Missandi being killed then instead of way earlier or Visaryeon... Super cuts delight explains all this... Like seriously any of these or all of them dying then would have made a great reason as to why Danny snaps

    • Bakugou Katsuki DynaMight
      Bakugou Katsuki DynaMight Year ago +1

      @The Program bruh GRRM said the books needed at least 13 seasons to be finished and HBO was ready to give the fundings for it... Dumb and Dumber just wanted to finish it all so they can focus on star wars lmao

    • Shannon D
      Shannon D Year ago

      True story. Why this, “Bran”, and everything else meant absolutely nothing!

  • Ed S
    Ed S 8 months ago +33

    I view him as an anti-villain.
    Just about everyone loves him. But, his love or lust or quite probably purely for his belief that he or his son would be the prophesied messiah reborn, spawned two very bloody civil wars. And surely he must have been intelligent enough to know that his actions risked starting one.

  • gbrlcr
    gbrlcr 3 years ago +497

    imagine Melisandre asking R'hllor a sight of Azor Ahai, and he shows her Jon
    "what kind of Stannis is this?"

    • lorene gross
      lorene gross Year ago +2

      Yet that's basically where we are at in the books. She keeps getting visions of Jon and can't find Stannis anywhere all she sees "Snow" the way its written in the book. So yeah Jon is important

    • TheWerdna
      TheWerdna Year ago +6

      I mean... Mel is not exactly smart. At all.

    • Fulvio Pontarollo
      Fulvio Pontarollo Year ago +12

      @Ib Mrzzyi yeah but the book does not write it as “snow” but as “Snow” with a capital S so I would say she’s seeing Jon
      See 10:44

    • Ib Mrzzyi
      Ib Mrzzyi Year ago +33

      She does ask R'hllor to show her Azor Ahai in the books..all she sees in the Fires is Snow. Shes pretty confused as to why she keeps seeing Snow when asking about Azor Ahai.

    • Yashfin Kazmi
      Yashfin Kazmi 2 years ago +5

      Isn't that cannon?

  • Benja F
    Benja F 9 months ago +56

    For a character that never appears in the books, Rhaegar is honestly one of my favourite characters

    • Angela
      Angela 19 days ago

      Meh, he's a jerk

  • Ayesha Niazi
    Ayesha Niazi 3 years ago +815

    Sad that none of this really meant anything in the end :(

    • David
      David 7 months ago

      @Sphincter Barnabus you can't know that for sure. For all we know the ending for the books wil also be shit. Only time will tell

    • draw with me
      draw with me 2 years ago +6

      We all mean nothing in the end

    • The Program
      The Program 2 years ago

      @Mike Diamantakis OTOH = On The Other Hand

    • João Fernando
      João Fernando 2 years ago +6

      fuck the show

    • The Program
      The Program 2 years ago +26

      Yeah in the show the prophecies ended up meaning nothing. I'm guessing that in the books they WILL come true, but never quite in the way expected.
      Aerys's paranoia seems insane, until you realize that all the plots against him that he feared were true. In fact, he only died because he wasn't paranoid enough (about Jaime). OTOH, this is classic GRRM. Aerys has prophetic warnings about the plots against him, which causes him to act in a paranoid and psychopathic way, which causes those plots against him to actually happen. They were self-fulfilling prophecies; his attempts to avoid them were what made them come true.

  • Kyle Miller
    Kyle Miller 2 years ago +18

    What a brilliant mind George has. This world he created with all its history and characters is incredible.

  • Hood
    Hood 3 years ago +136

    Ok after this I see why everyone was mad that Arya killed the night king. Now I’m thinking why would they wanna waste this all for nothing for “shock value”

    • slowdive
      slowdive Month ago

      @Lucía Mota HBO probably wanted the same thing. They know how hyped the people are for season 8 and they just wanna cashed in before the shows over with little budget

    • slowdive
      slowdive Month ago

      There's a reason why they called him dumb and dumber

    • Lucía Mota
      Lucía Mota 7 months ago +4

      @Cool Flames but why, WHY did HBO allow it? I'm sure they had the authority to get rid of those idiots and hire Miguel Sapochnik and more competent people! I will never understand....

    • Cool Flames
      Cool Flames Year ago +12

      Because they couldn't care less about the show
      All they wanted was to wrap up with a lazy story just to move on to their next project

  • young link
    young link 3 years ago +10582

    why do i care about this more than real history

    • lucca ferla
      lucca ferla 24 days ago

      You aren't allowed to admire or appreciate real history anymore.

    • pola behr
      pola behr Month ago

      coz you haven't learned the right history

    • Dom
      Dom Month ago

      because history is taught in a boring way, they don't make you care about the people, just a bunch of names, places and events you have to remember for a test
      i always had a hard time remembering the stuff because i just didn't care

    • Candy Cane
      Candy Cane Month ago

      I was just telling a friend yesterday that I can spend hours watching videos like this about the backstory's of fictional characters and be so engrossed and invested Lol I got to the point where I was watching a cooking show and they had an egg and I swear to God I thought it was a dragon egg from all the house of the dragon and gave a throne's eggs I've been seeing lately lol

    • Danette
      Danette 2 months ago

      😆

  • Meteor_pending
    Meteor_pending 2 years ago +49

    Jon even literally said as much in his oath, "I am the sword in the darkness."

  • Arjun Unnikrishnan
    Arjun Unnikrishnan Year ago +15

    In two of the Dunk and Egg novellas, characters of Targaryen lineage have had dreams of Dunk and relating to dragons, and they do things to because of this that ultimately leads to the prophecies come true, and they also talk to Dunk about the dreams. Perhaps Rhaegar had dreams which showed Lyanna as the one that needs to bear the child of prophecy, but he hadn't ever seen her until he met her at the tourney at Harrenhal while hunting for the mystery knight. Perhaps when he saw her he realised that the person in his dreams was real, and they had a conversation about it, and he realised that this was the only way forward. Maybe he saw the end of the dynasty, maybe he saw that he was going to die, maybe he saw Jon and Dany together on dragons or something like that, and meeting Lyanna for the first time convinced him that the dreams were prophetic and inevitable, and he needed to act to secure it happening....

    • Lucía Mota
      Lucía Mota 7 months ago +1

      The thing is almost anybody know how to interprete prophecy and visions and it always ends in tragedy... Look, Melisandre is going mistake after mistake, I'm 99% sure that Egg went totally "mad" because of prophecy and he intended to burn newborn Rhaegar and that's why Summerhall happened. Not even Egg's brother could interprete his dreams and couldn't avoid Baelor Breakspear's death and wasted his life in alcohol. There is a huge list of Targaryens being "crazy", they were not, they only didnt know how to handle their prophetic nature.
      At that point Rhaegar should have know better haha.

  • Dave Windell
    Dave Windell 19 days ago

    This is, by far, the best interpretation of the prophecy I’ve seen. Rhay as Azora High, and his death along with Aegon’s and Leanna’s as the three swords is great, and the thought of Jon Snow as a weapon, the flaming sword, gives me goose bumps. Sounds about right. Time for GRRM to confirm.

  • The Program
    The Program 2 years ago +2

    Thanks to AS-X for debunking the "Robert's Rebellion was built on a lie" myth. Aerys had just tortured Rickard and Brandon Stark to death. Robert/Eddard/Jon rebelled because Jon Arryn wasn't going to execute them on Aerys's orders. Those murders and attempted murders were the foundation of the Rebellion, and they were 100% true.
    So what was the key decision that caused the rebellion? Well, like AS-X says, it's complicated and multifaceted. If you want to boil it down to one moment, then here's three: Brandon's decision to rashly go to King's Landing, basically unprotected, and shout out his challenges to Rhaegar. Aerys's decision to lure Lord Rickard down to King's Landing and then execute him and Brandon in a particularly vile way. Jon Arryn's decision not to obey the king by executing the boys he was fostering. Those are key moments.
    Rhaegar's decision to abscond with Lyanna ("seduce" her, in the old sense that ignores her consent as even a factor) certainly lead to it, but I don't think it was THE key moment that tripped over the Rebellion. Certainly whether or not Lyanna had consented or felt "True Love" or whatever wasn't a factor-- in this setting and the history it's modeled on, her emotions or willingness made no difference whatsoever.

  • Mythellaneous
    Mythellaneous 2 years ago +541

    "Love is the death of duty."
    Jon: Chooses duty over love, killing Daenerys. Survives the series and saves the kingdoms from a mad queen.
    Robb: Chooses love over duty, marrying another when he is promised to Roslin Frey. Dies, gets most of his men killed and his whole cause set back.

    • Mogran
      Mogran Month ago

      Imo Dany went mad due to grief.
      She had nothing to lose that time.

    • Test 1
      Test 1 3 months ago

      Stark beheaded and died bcz he was loyal and doing his duty over love.

    • Georgina Kim
      Georgina Kim 5 months ago +1

      @Alaina yes she is. Burning the innocent people in westerors despite of hearing the bells (sign of surrender) the war could have stop there because the people cried surrender. She chose to burn the city and its people isn't that an early sign of mad queen? Lmao

    • mirekchance
      mirekchance 6 months ago

      You think he saved the kingdom, hmmm.
      I think he made a mistake. If he was willing to love her her behaviour would be better, and she wouldn't have destroyed the city...

    • Ser Torrhen Clegane
      Ser Torrhen Clegane 7 months ago +1

      He wasn't promised to Roslin, per say. He could've picked her, but it was up to him to choose. He did make the wrong choice, but let it not be said that he actually a tangible betrothed. It was more an idea of a betrothed.

  • StarSapphire
    StarSapphire 3 months ago +2

    Getting back into ASOIAF reluctantly with HOTD imminent, and Rhaegar and Lyanna's story was one of the things that fascinated me the most when I was really into the series a few years ago before GOT's ending soured it for me. I thought I had heard everything about this theory but you shed new light on certain angles like the water, lion, wife angle and highlighting Jon's oath that means he himself could be Lightbringer and not just its wielder. I also appreciate you relayed different perspectives about Rhaegar as he's a very polarising figure and a lot of people (like in the series) portray him as either a hero or a villain, even when they know GRRM prefers grey characters. I also loved the clear, concise way you relayed everything. Finally, thanks for noting the potential of the ladies involved and wanting to know more about them, rather than them just being silent wombs and victims. I too want to know more about them. I also wonder if the Maesters Conspiracy theory is real and whether Rhaegar and Lyanna attempted to explain their actions but were foiled by the maesters who saw a chance to finally bring down the Targs. Great job.

  • English Lady
    English Lady 3 years ago +51

    The forbidden love which destroys a Kingdom or doomed love is a common trope from Medieval Literature. Think Lancelot and Guinivere, Arthur and Morgana, Tristan and Isolde, Romeo and Juliet even Paris and Helen of Troy. Its probably as old as storytelling itself.

  • RANESBETTERHALF
    RANESBETTERHALF 7 months ago +8

    Funny enough I was just thinking the other day about how Rhaegar Targaryen must’ve had an obsession with the Lord of the light because of the visions in the fire The religion grants. Perhaps Regar encountered a more powerful priestess than Mellisandre. and maybe he saw his own future. even saw his spirit reborn as the dragon Rhaegal and reuniting with his son Jon in a physical form. I would love to see that. Maybe I’ll write it. If he dedicated himself to a vision at such a young age you can only imagine what he would’ve done if he saw the Destiny of Jon Snow before any of us

  • Jon Snow
    Jon Snow 3 years ago +3129

    I miss my father - both of them.

    • Shred God 7404
      Shred God 7404 21 day ago

      @kssgpv he killed several others who tried the name for their own accounts

    • juhi
      juhi 29 days ago

      A man is jon snow

    • Marvelansh
      Marvelansh 4 months ago

      You know nothing, Jon Snow.

    • Simon Ambrose
      Simon Ambrose Year ago +1

      @Magnus The Red well, if he cared only about his sibilings night king would be on the iron throne...
      His son third Aegon was supposed to the PRINCE THAT WAS PROMISED

    • Magnus The Red
      Magnus The Red Year ago

      You mean your father rhager who was a piece of shit who cared more about a prophecy then your siblings

  • Dovakhiiin
    Dovakhiiin 3 years ago +1641

    All this meant nothing in the end...

    • Raptormann0205
      Raptormann0205 9 months ago

      @Tasha Glam I envy that hopeful soul that I was as well

    • Tasha Glam
      Tasha Glam 9 months ago

      @Raptormann0205 I actually envy how much faith you still have in GRRM. I gave up on him 10 years ago.

    • Karthik KR
      Karthik KR Year ago

      @zie V Nothing's ever gonna happen but yeah they're planning to release some house of the dragon shit which nobody really asked or card for. I'd literally give anything to see a series depicting Robert's rebellion.

    • Dee
      Dee Year ago +1

      Meant everything....

    • Raptormann0205
      Raptormann0205 Year ago

      @Cone Bear Retrospectively I may have been naive.

  • Joe Dawson
    Joe Dawson 3 months ago +3

    Re: Lightbringer -
    Azor Ahai needed to forge a hero's sword, so he labored for thirty days and thirty nights at the sacred fires of a temple until it was done. However, when he went to temper it in water, the sword broke. [Rhaegar - died in the waters of the River Trident]
    He was not one to give up easily, so he started over. Azor Ahai took fifty days and fifty nights to make another sword better than the first. To temper it this time, he captured a lion and drove the sword into its heart, but once more the steel shattered. [Aegon - died when confronting Ser Gregor Clegane representing the lion of House Lannister]
    The third time, with a heavy heart, for he knew beforehand what he must do to finish the blade, Azor Ahai worked for a hundred days and nights until it was finished. This time, he called for his wife, Nissa Nissa, and asked her to bare her breast. He drove his sword into her living heart, her soul combining with the steel of the sword, creating Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes. Lightbringer was henceforth always warm to the touch. [Jon - died by being stabbed in the heart, and brought back to life by Melisandre, a Red Priestess of the Lord of Light]
    The three-headed dragon could be three generations of Targaryen's that had to be killed to fulfil the prophecy.

  • You can't keep running In and out of my Life

    When it comes to Rhaegar and Lyanna the arguments are either "Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna" or "They met at Harrenhal and fell in love but she didn't want to marry Robert so she ran away with Rhaegar instead" but a point I have only come across a few times was; A young betrothed maiden meets the Prince of the Realm while trying to hide the evidence of something which she knew could get her into serious trouble especially considering his father, although he keeps his promise and her identity safe she can't know whether his word is absolute so whenever he comes calling in secret she answers and they do get to know one another and she divulges her problems and Rhaegar absolutely falls in love with her and Lyanna may as well but she doesn't know what refusing his advances would mean so things keep escalating and it all comes to a head when he says "Come with me" with the the best intentions and plans but what is she supposed to say or do but comply, then word gets to Brandon that she was taken and the rest is history. The point to my rambling was that she went with him willingly but how much free will did she have in making that decision. Until we get an actualy canon timeline and version of events this will always be in the back of my mind but hey I have enough patience to wait on Berserk I can wait for more ASOIAF right? RIGHT???

  • Brady Miller
    Brady Miller 3 months ago +4

    Crazy how deep the world of ice and fire really is. All the connections and tie ins and lore is pretty unbelievable.

  • deadmanslastwish
    deadmanslastwish 3 years ago +5440

    Ned: Rhaegar may be your father, but he ain't your daddy.

    • Abhinand Patil
      Abhinand Patil 13 days ago

      lol

    • Mike de Leeuw
      Mike de Leeuw 27 days ago

      ​@Smalls McGogg

    • Sahar Daves
      Sahar Daves Month ago +2

      Idk letting a boy grow up thinking he a bastard and nameless whole time he a whole Targaryen king playing second fiddle to Ned”s kids so I don’t know about that .

    • Markeice Patrick
      Markeice Patrick Month ago

      I'm so late but thank you for posting this. 🤣🤣🤣

    • Jon
      Jon Month ago

      RAHAHAHA

  • Sincerly SAVAGE.
    Sincerly SAVAGE. Month ago +2

    I love how the thoughts and actions of these characters can have a variety of reasons or interpretations.

  • Gabriela Lukavei
    Gabriela Lukavei Month ago +1

    Rhaegar does feel like a protagonist at times, most POV characters (and other important characters like Lyanna or Robert) have had their lives shaped by Rhaegar's beliefs and actions. I know most people hate this theory (and I know that's it's most likely not true), but I really like it (and it's canon in my head lmao)

  • Daniel Livas
    Daniel Livas Month ago +1

    I've always called Jon the Song of Ice and Fire. Love-making or conception has always been referred to as "making music" and I'd like to think that the romanticism is a metaphor for Rhaegar and Lyanna's love. Jon is their song. A token of their love. The Song of Ice and Fire.

    • Daniel Livas
      Daniel Livas Month ago

      Also, thinking outside the box here. If Rhaegar sacrificed the thousands of people who died in Robert's Rebellion for the millions of lives that would be lost to the Whitewalkers, is that not justified within itself? Granted some selfish intentions may have been layered in, but if the entire House of the Dragon believes that one of their blood is the only thing from stopping the end of the world, is it not his duty (or at least in his head) to make sure that the line continues?

  • Ilham
    Ilham Year ago +19

    People painting this is a love story irritate me lol. I doubt romance was the main factor of Rhaegar's or Lyanna's actions. Lyanna wanted to escape a betrothal to a loathsome man and Rhaegar took advantage of that cause he wanted his prophecy baby. They're victims of their own actions and Elia, her children and the realm were all collateral damage.

  • Jeus Vox
    Jeus Vox Year ago

    True love always finds a way. I find it ironic how in the story, people would say, he started a war over a woman he was in love with, when in reality, he was threatened with war if he didn’t live a lie. From Rhaegars character description, he’d rather sing than fight, and it seems like he was more of positive loving person, rather than a negative killer, doesn’t mean he didn’t do or was capable of both. So from my perspective, he didn’t start a war over a women, others tried to force him against his will, and given his status amongst men a war was started because of it. He was willing to go to war for his love, but I don’t think that’s what he wanted, in fact it sounds like he would’ve avoided had the world not condemned him to slaves life. Slave you might ask? Well yes, he wasn’t really given a choice, even though technically he was, it was just that the people around him started the war because of his decision. This makes me feel for people in positions like that, or say religions. Where a man and/or woman is forced to marry someone they don’t want to because their family said too for what ever reasons, money, power, influence etc. To me it’s a representation of the universe or God saying, ultimately if a lie is lived, chaos will follow until it is corrected.

  • Ace Alpine
    Ace Alpine 7 months ago +7

    He singlehandedly caused the downfall of his family's dynasty and caused a civil war that tore the country in half. And what did his son do to save Westeros? It was Arya who saved the day.
    So yeah, he was some "hero".

  • Sean O'Leary
    Sean O'Leary Month ago +1

    A few characters I'd really like to see in action (in a alot more detail than Bran's visions) are Rhaegar, a young Barriston, young Ned and Robert, and Arthur Dayne.
    HBO probably won't ever do it (even though it would be 10x better than a Jon Snow spinoff) buuuuuuut I would love a series that spans 9 Penny through Roberts Rebellion. I could care less that we already know what's happens. I still want to see it. Do it soon before the actors who originally played the characters have aged too much.

  • A C
    A C Year ago

    It'll be interesting to see how the book series ends. Did George tell the showrunners the actual ending and they went with something else? Or did he withhold that info to keep it fresh for the books? Or it is the ending and he saw how much people hated it and is doing major rewrites. After all there was supposed to be a time skip that didn't happen so the novels aren't set in stone yet.

  • lluewhyn
    lluewhyn 7 months ago

    I think it's unlikely that Lyanna named Jon "Aegon" like the show, rather that was simply the show's way of incorporating the F'Aegon that it otherwise omitted. When Rhaegar left Lyanna, she was still pregnant and wouldn't give birth for a couple of more months*. Rhaegar died before either of his two children with Elia, so he wouldn't have been on board with naming two of his children the same name, and he was probably expecting to name the child Visenya. Once Rhaegar and his children died, it would be possible, but it's uncertain how much Lyanna would have wanted to give her son a Targaryen name after the death of her father and brother.
    *Rhaegar leaves Lyanna in the Tower of Joy in a part of Dorne to head a third of the way across the continent to King's Landing, gathers his forces there, then travels to the Trident, dies there, the rebel forces then march on King's Landing, arriving *after* Tywin has sacked it. Ned arrives to see Jaime on the throne. After KL is secure and realizing Lyanna and several members of the Kingsguard aren't there, Ned travels all the way back down to the Tower of Joy, except .....he probably hits a large detour before that because he still doesn't know where Lyanna is, and likely gets this information from Ashara Dayne. Which means he travels all the way down to Starfall, finds out the information from Ashara, and then travels back north to the Tower of Joy. All of this back and forth across hundreds of miles and gathering information could easily be several months.

  • Flynn Morrow
    Flynn Morrow 11 months ago +11

    I really love these videos. I know it's after they completely botched the story, but with all the intricate setup, it's so beautiful to see what could have been.

    • Joe Louis
      Joe Louis Month ago

      @Flynn Morrow well he said Winds of winter was 75% finished, so I'd guess a few years away from completion haha

    • Flynn Morrow
      Flynn Morrow Month ago

      @Joe Louis I doubt that. GRR Martin isn't making writing them a priority. 🙁

    • Joe Louis
      Joe Louis Month ago +1

      @Heart b Williams 🧐

    • Joe Louis
      Joe Louis Month ago

      What will be** the last books will be out one day

    • Heart b Williams
      Heart b Williams 3 months ago

      Hello sweetheart ❤️❤️

  • queen bee
    queen bee 25 days ago

    I loved the memory scene of the marriage. I wish we could of seen more from that time. I'm still hoping for a series starting when the mad king took the throne

  • Devolvy
    Devolvy 3 years ago +7

    I've never thought about the fact that Rhaegar had two sons that were both named Aegon.

  • Anaïs Cardot
    Anaïs Cardot 3 years ago +524

    To add something to this theory, the part about "putting the sword through his beloved wife" could also be interpreted as : by choosing Lyana, Rhaegar betrayed Elia, putting a sword through her heart metaphorically (and then indirectly when she was killed due to his actions)

    • DarthDookieMan
      DarthDookieMan 2 months ago +6

      In a way, it is very in line with people’s observations/theories about gods/fate having a grim sense of humor/irony.
      What better way to cap off a story about a savior of the entire world than with a divine dick joke?

    • KingPomegranite
      KingPomegranite 2 months ago +9

      "Every sword needs a sheath and every wedding needs a bedding"

    • Geena Lawrence
      Geena Lawrence 7 months ago +4

      @Oy Blech cringe

    • Oy Blech
      Oy Blech 3 years ago +48

      I still prefer the metaphor of him putting his sword through lyana; simply because that part in the vid almost murdered me 😂

  • Frank Migliore
    Frank Migliore Month ago

    I think so much of the brilliance of the Revellion’s story is taken away if it was all Rhaegar’s plan. I think instead he demonstrates how even the most “promising” prince can ruin themselves by falling for prophecy and self obsession.
    And if he knew what would happen, it’s hard to root for a guy who literally abandoned his wife and kids to die, which doesn’t make sense considering his belief that “the dragon has three heads”.

  • shadowlesswarrior
    shadowlesswarrior 11 months ago +2

    Not gonna lie, Jon being the true heir of the Iron Throne caught me off guard and I never saw it coming.

  • Siddharth Choudhary
    Siddharth Choudhary 2 years ago +3

    I think the whole prophesy thing is tied to the idea of ends justifying the means. But as a reader we should question these 'means' like Davos did when hearing about it from Melisandre.

  • Nikita Rajput
    Nikita Rajput Year ago +1

    I genuinely wish they showed us the real story of Targaryens everything from the start till the fall...it would've been hella intresting to watch

  • allrequiredfields
    allrequiredfields 3 years ago +3998

    Eddard Stark was the true hero; no one sacrificed as much as he did.

    • Raif Hasan
      Raif Hasan 10 months ago

      @Pushkar Saraf yes so

    • King Jon Starkgeryan
      King Jon Starkgeryan 10 months ago +1

      He sacrificed his nephews rights and the chance to be loved in order to save his drunken friend. I love Ned as a character but my God, he made a bad choice. He should have chose family over friends

    • John Jacob
      John Jacob 10 months ago +1

      That’s a very one sided view, you conveniently omitted key events that made Jon snow great.. he didn’t crown himself the people did. Sansa withheld the fact that she could rally the knights of the vale. Catelyn stark admitted that all of the horror that happened was because she couldn’t love a motherless child(she treated him terribly)

    • Andjela Rakic
      Andjela Rakic 11 months ago +1

      @Pushkar Saraf Your thinking is kinda flawed in the part where you say "Catlyn might be flawed but she was a good person". Like what? So John is also flawed and he isn't a good person because of that? What kind of logic is that? He is a good person too.

    • Underhiseye D
      Underhiseye D Year ago +1

      @lanchon50 Sansa was young with fairytale dreams. That all died when she saw her father beheaded. She learned from the best and kept a good moral code along the way. In the end her quite observations taught her to play to survive. She is the winner as she is the best to rule.

  • MegaKnight2012
    MegaKnight2012 Year ago +1

    Starting to think Rhaegar might be more of an accidental hero. He seems to have done what he did to save the realms, but how many died from his actions? Melisandre is a religious fanatic and used as a cautionary tale. She gets visions and interprets them in wrong ways, causing massive harm trying to make said visions reality, going off of incomplete information. Rhaegar may have been a romantic fanatic, as well as a religious. Rhaegar started out as bookish, likely shaped by those romanticized versions of heroes that people later saw him as. If he got visions or read prophecies, he might have tried to make them real through romantic actions instead of more rational. He impulsively abducted Lyanna Stark to birth a third child for a prophecy, which led to Lyanna's brother and father demanding her back from King Aerys, Aerys killing the Starks, an alliance waging war against King Aerys in response, Prince Rhaegar fighting his second wife's families armies, Rhaegar's death, the Sack of King's Landing, the death of Rhaegar's first wife and children, and finally the death of his Kingsguard defending Lyanna and Jon from Ned who just came to rescue his sister. Maybe Rhaegar instructed Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, to fight anyone who comes because Rhaegar interpreted Arthur's death, the Bleeding Star, as part of the birth of Jon becoming Azor Ahai. Ser Arthur Dayne's death might have been almost sacrificial for a perceived ritual, the way Azor Ahai sacrificed his own wife to make Lightbringer (which is possibly Ser Arthur Dayne's sword, Dawn). Azor Ahai's sacrificing his wife, Nissa Nissa, is even shown in a negative light from Ser Davos when he hears the tale, and blood sacrifices are shown negatively throughout Martin's narrative. Maybe Rhaegar set out to make Azor Ahai based on stories from Asshai, a city of sorcery and blood sacrifices, not recognizing the ways of making the Promised Prince are recorded incompletely, changed by people who support blood sacrifice. Maybe Ser Arthur Dayne dying needlessly is supposed to be seen as wrong, and a poor result of Rhaegar's choices. Rhaegar's actions seem to have turned many good men against each other. If Rhaegar had tried a more rational approach, fewer might have died. What if he secretly asked Lyanna's hand from her father, promising an alliance to help overthrow King Aerys, freeing Lyanna from her political engagement to Robert, a man she did not love, or at least leave a note for Lord Stark from Lyanna and Rhaegar that he hadn't stolen her but they were eloping. Maybe Jon would have still been born under a Bleeding Star without Ser Arthur Dayne's death, a comet possibly appearing, or Robert would have been the one attacking where Lyanna was, instead of Lyanna's brother Ned having to kill people he admired who were just defending his sister and nephew. Maybe then Rhaegar, Ned, Ser Arthur, Ser Barristan, and other heroes could have helped raise Jon to be a hero. Thankfully, Rhaegar's son, Jon Snow (Targaryen), seems to be willing to take more rational or at least less romantic courses of action than his father, which he might have to do just to fix so much of the mess his father, Rhaegar, left for him to clean up. Rhaegar causing so much war and death for a greater good might be Martin's narrative on how bad war can turn out, and that like Melisandre, the ends don't necessarily justify the means, especially if done on faulty information.

  • justgivemethetruth
    justgivemethetruth 3 years ago +2

    They should have gotten Tony Curran who played Datak Tar on "Defiance" to play one of the Targarians ... he was very experienced with this kind of character and was wonderful in "Defiance"

  • Muenni
    Muenni 8 months ago +1

    If Jon is the metaphorical Lightbringer, the successfully tempered third blade, Aegon the second failed blade tempered in the Lannister's bloody Mountain and Rhaegar the failed first blade tempered in the waters of the Trident - how can Rhaegar also be the sword's wielder Azor Ahai?
    That would make whoever 'wielded' Rhaegar, Aegon and Jon Azor Ahai. Who could that be?
    Also, if Aegor didn't die as an infant, he would either have to die to the Lannisters later on to make the hypothesis true. Either way though, this conveniently leaves out his older sister, named after the originals Aegor's sister Rhaenys. If Aegor did survive (and the presented one is not an imposter), wouldn't she be the failed second blade? And wouldn't Aegor be the third then, Lightbringer, instead of Jon? Can Jon as Azor Ahai 'wield' Aegor as Lightbringer then?
    All in all, I don't think this hypothesis is as sound as the video makes it out to be. It seems contradictory in parts.

  • Jorge Molina
    Jorge Molina 3 years ago +1

    If he wanted another daughter I think he picked Lyanna because Vinsenya was warrior and fighter like Lyanna so if he wanted a another female I can see that being a reason

  • PieOfEpicness
    PieOfEpicness 3 years ago +2912

    "The Mountain is Podrick riding on Hot Pie's shoulders." Now THAT's a theory.

    • neuralmute
      neuralmute 8 months ago +2

      @LunaticCSGO It's gotta be either him or Ser Pounce.

    • LunaticCSGO
      LunaticCSGO 9 months ago +2

      We all know that Hot Pie is both Azor Ahai and the future king of Westeros.

    • Unlicensed Youtube Commenter
      Unlicensed Youtube Commenter Year ago +2

      With the reanimated head of Lommy Greenhands

    • Vinícius de Oliveira
      Vinícius de Oliveira Year ago +2

      This is not an opinion, this is a FACT

    • G Keefer
      G Keefer Year ago +1

      My Dr. Brew came out my nose when I read this!!! oh lol... Sounds reasonable...

  • Acey Kerr
    Acey Kerr Year ago +2

    I still don't believe that Jon Snow is the child of Lyanna and Rhaegar.
    Targaryen boys, as far as I'm aware, all have the same physical characteristics. Platinum blonde hair and purple eyes.
    It's only ever the female Targaryens that display traits from their other half.
    I am a firm believer that Jon Snow is the child of Eddard and Ashara. Ashara being so wrought with grief after finding out that Ned killed the sword of the morning, kills herself and Ned takes the child.

  • Xb gaming
    Xb gaming 5 months ago +1

    So when young Ned Stark goes to the tower in Dorn, was Sir Arthur Dayne, whom Ned killed, was Dayne attempting to help keep Layana safe and her secret safe? Or was Dayne attempting to keep her contained in order to let the king know the truth? That scene, knowing the truth after, is confusing to me.

  • Lance Maltby
    Lance Maltby Year ago +1

    This essay, while dated and tainted by season 8, is the closest I've found to answering a question I've had for some time regarding this theoretical chain of events.
    If all this had to happen, and Rhaegar knew he had to die at Robert's hand that day, why did he implore Robert to "Wait!" before receiving the killing blow?

  • Mayuri Chavan
    Mayuri Chavan 2 years ago +1

    Thank You So Much Sir. For clearing my head! I just completed S8 and was so disappointed with Rhageal. I was wondering how he could be so irresponsible while evryone hypes him so much!! THIS VIDEO EXPLAINS EVERYTHING! Thank you again for taking so much efforts for fans like me. 😉

  • M_Dutch97
    M_Dutch97 3 years ago +1360

    It appears all that was needed was a young girl with a dagger who was able to teleport.

    • aditi s
      aditi s 11 months ago

      @Nate Strasburg What doesn't make sense is her changing the voices.

    • how ya Doin mate
      how ya Doin mate Year ago +1

      Man I miss karl fookin tanner

    • John Doe
      John Doe 3 years ago +10

      @Cephalon Rolli I think it was a joke

    • Cephalon Rolli
      Cephalon Rolli 3 years ago +15

      @Nate Strasburg there wa no pile of dead white walkers around bran. Theon ran straight to the night king with no pile in sight or nearby. Also not that many wights died near bran.

    • granit pulka
      granit pulka 3 years ago +71

      @Nate Strasburg still doesn't make sense

  • Kei Veela
    Kei Veela 2 years ago +41

    I just remembered this line in the fanfic I read that if Rhaegar wanted a Visenya he should've find a woman with a lot of sisters and not a lot of brothers. I just find it funny 😭

    • Rasheed Khan
      Rasheed Khan Year ago +9

      And inaccurate. The gender of a baby is determined by whether the specific sperm that made it carried an X or Y chromosome.

  • Shane Johns
    Shane Johns 22 days ago +1

    Was Lyanna Stark always opposed to her betrothal to Robert? Or was it always a case of it being forced on her regardless of her wishes, for the betterment of relationships between the two houses? For me, it makes a difference. Was Lyanna in any way flirtatious with Robert until something better came along? Or did she give Robert no reason at all to believe she was unhappy with the marriage betrothal? I know Ned's wife, Cat, was originally meant to go to Ned's brother as well -- but she understood her 'duty' to marry Ned instead, after his brother was horrifically executed by the Mad King. I suppose it comes down to what Lyanna believed about such arranged marriages, and whether or not she believed it really was her 'duty' to marry someone other than the person she did love -- especially considering her gender non-conformity in other aspects (such as hand-to-hand combat, etc.). Did she accept the forfeiture of her own heart's desires (and overall lesser status), due to her being born a female? And if both Rhaegar and Lyanna identified themselves as playing roles in the prophecy, then couldn't they both have made the decision to produce another heir out of a sense of duty to the living vs. the undead opponent north of the Wall? Are her actions better explained by that of a rebellious and ambitious female trying to rise above the socially accepted role given to her by her gender? Or are they better explained by her and Rhaegar both seriously believing that undead creatures will wipe out all of the living unless they make a baby together?

  • Darkfireice
    Darkfireice 2 years ago +1

    Jon Aryn started the war, not Robert. Also, Caligula and Nero were both adored by the plebs, and both were extremely talented, in everything they did, and their guardiands' were also unstable

  • Gonzalo Ortiz corral
    Gonzalo Ortiz corral 3 years ago +2

    What really surprised me about the GoT TV series is that there's no mention at all of the survival of Aegon Targaryen (Rhaegar's and Elia Martell's son and true heir to the iron throne, even more so than Jon).
    For those of you who haven't read the books, he was actually never killed by the mountain, and was instead saved by Varys and Ilyrio Mopatis, who plotted to give the iron throne back to the Targaryens.
    By the end of the books he has started to conquer the east cost of westeros, and plans to take Storm's End.
    I think he is definately one of the three heads of the dragon, and if he doesn't die (which i hope he doesn't) an ally for Daenerys and Jon against the Night King.

    • alex939709
      alex939709 3 years ago

      There's no Nigth King in the books

  • Thee Stevie Franchise
    Thee Stevie Franchise 5 years ago +639

    Masterful work once again, Alt Shift. Really appreciate the time and effort you put forth to make these. Give everyone at ASX the day off after this one!

    • Sheila Mac
      Sheila Mac 5 years ago +5

      What Thee Stevie Franchise said. Thank you for all your efforts. Really enjoy the results.

    • Alt Shift X
      Alt Shift X  5 years ago +24

      Thanks Stevie!

  • NotVHS
    NotVHS 2 years ago +2

    I just mentioned on another video about me thinking Elia was Lyanna after rereading house of the undying after the next chapter with Dany thinking about seeing Rhaegar in the vision. The whole song of Ice and fire line made me realize who Jon's parents really were , but ironically it was all from me not realizing Rhaegar was not there to see Jon born
    Long before I saw season 7 of game of thrones I had decided Jon was the baby in the vision named Aegon because of thinking she was lyanna.

  • lizya
    lizya 3 years ago +289

    Yeah right. Rhaegar left his original wife and two kids, marry another girl to conceive his third child that meant absolutely nothing in the end. JON AND HIS SIBLINGS (RHAENYS AND AEGON) DESERVED BETTER!! DAMN IT HBO! WHY DO YOU HAVE TO EXILE JON TO THE WALL??
    Still so disappointed grrr.

    • slowdive
      slowdive Month ago

      @The Program his only role was to get dany to come North? What, you forget how he literally unite all the seven kingdom together with wildlings against the Night King. Even if Night King didnt resurrect Viserion they would still get through. At the battle of castle black, even a few wildlings with a few giants almost managed to break through the gates

    • Lucifer Morningstar
      Lucifer Morningstar 7 months ago

      @Lucía Mota wtf are u talking about , did u look at his face when he became the commander , that was the face of a happy man .

    • Lucía Mota
      Lucía Mota 7 months ago

      @Lucifer Morningstar He didn't even want to be the Lord Commander of the NW and he certainly enjoyed living with the Free folk...
      The thing is HBO got rid of almost all the magic and fantasy of the books at the point we don't know what kind of being Jon will be after death so, maybe he'll be an Ice zombie and prefer to be alone in the far north. Or maybe he'll renounce to all and decides to live in Ghost in the wild. Anyway, the ending HBO gave to him was actually reasonable, actually he was one of the few who got and ending on character.

    • Epipsychidion Ozymandias
      Epipsychidion Ozymandias Year ago

      @Lucifer Morningstar even in the books I do not see him as the perfect candidate. Commanding the Night Watch is a thing, the whole kingdom is another. Not to mention he's most probably dead, maybe coming back wrong.

    • Lucifer Morningstar
      Lucifer Morningstar Year ago +2

      @Epipsychidion Ozymandias jon not wanting to be a king was BULLSHIT crap created by d&d to ruin Jon's and dany's character.

  • James Rund
    James Rund Year ago +1

    Daenerys is the daughter of rhaegar and ashara Dayne. The real daenerys died on dragon stone. Bariston said that Daenerys eyes are hauntingly like asharas and he feels as if he’s looking at her daughter. We also know that ashara has a daughter that “dies”.

  • Justin
    Justin 2 years ago +1

    All of that mesmerizing and deep prophecy only for Jon to do...really not that much. Maybe the point is that prophecy is bullshit? But then why did Jaime end up dying next to Cersei like the prophecy states, or why was Cersei followed by a queen more beautiful than her? Maybe the ending in the books really will end up being the same as that of GoT but I'm sure GRRM will actually, I don't know, develop any sort of logical continuity for Arya saving the day. I mean, what's the purpose in calling the series A Song of Ice and Fire if Jon isn't Lightbringer?

  • IvyHilts
    IvyHilts 3 years ago +20

    I've always picture Rhaegar with the face and voice of Kurt Cobain. The sadness, the music talent, the face features...

    • IvyHilts
      IvyHilts Year ago +1

      @neuralmute Indeed!!! #wewantserdave

    • neuralmute
      neuralmute Year ago +2

      @IvyHilts Or that time a little girl challenged Ser Dave to a duel... and won? 🤣 I'd bet real money that she's got some Stark blood, in with her adorable Summer Islander hair! Ser Dave truly did the knightly thing, by inviting her to join the Foo Fighters Without Banners at their next tourney.
      At this point, I think Ser Dave needs to be a canon character!

    • IvyHilts
      IvyHilts Year ago +1

      @neuralmute So good! I love it!

    • neuralmute
      neuralmute Year ago +2

      @IvyHilts Can't forget about Ser Dave's adventures with the Queens of the First Men, or that strange northern Ghost! Ser Dave really gets around, with his weirwood drumsticks. 😉

    • IvyHilts
      IvyHilts Year ago +2

      @neuralmute Ser Dave of the Foo Fighters Without Banners!

  • Zack West
    Zack West 2 years ago

    See, but is Rhaegar really Azor Ahai, AND the first, failed Lightbringer? Azor Ahai MADE the swords, so isn't it more likely that whoever put Rhaegar on his path in the first place was Azor Ahai?

  • JCV
    JCV 10 months ago +1

    my favourite detail of this whole story is that moment when, during the tournament at Harrenhal, Rhaegar sung and Lyanna was so moved by it that she began to cry. Benjen made fun of her for it and she kicked his ass lmao

  • Lisa Seatle
    Lisa Seatle 2 years ago +1

    Rhaegar the most interesting least seen character.
    I would love to see a series based on the previous generation with young Ned, Rhaegar, Robert etc..

  • The 54th
    The 54th Month ago +1

    After watching HOTD it’s very possible Rhaegar was aware of asoiaf or had visions like Viserys did.

  • Snufkin Hollow
    Snufkin Hollow 4 months ago

    I should start by saying that I'm mainly familiar with the show and am currently playing catch-up with the books - so, if any of my theories are way off the mark for those more familiar with ASoIaF lore then I apologise.
    My first thought - that I'm sure has been noticed before - is that maybe the winter roses which Rhaegar gave to Lyanna are also an allusion by GRRM to the free folk legend of Bael the Bard and Lord Brandon Stark's daughter? The irony being that Jon does not believe the legend when Ygritte tells it to him but it could almost be a foretelling of his own conception and parentage. Ygritte also says something about a bard's truth being different which could perhaps also be connected to how those who set so much store in prophecies and lore can interpret them in many different ways? Also, if the legends about Bael the Bard did happen to somehow be true, I think that means the Starks, and therefore also Jon Snow, are actually descendants of the free folk? If you're looking for the ice to go with Rhaegar's fire, it doesn't get more icy than it is beyond the wall. I think there's also a vision that Daenerys has that involves a blue rose growing through ice that's in the books but not the show and that the winter roses crop up several more times in the books in dreams/visions?
    I'm also not as convinced as many people seem to be of good old Ned Stark's all-round 'nobility' and the perception that he is one of the few heroic characters. He seems to like keeping secrets when it suits him and exposing them when it doesn't, even when his decisions lead to wars, death and destruction on a massive scale. I like the fact that GRRM makes pretty much every one of his characters 'human' in the sense that everyone has a light side and a dark side, as well as the fact that 'morality' is often in the eye of the beholder, and I don't think the whole picture of Ned's character actually strays from this.

  • Arsena1 ,
    Arsena1 , 2 months ago

    I love the story and at the risk of being nit picky, how the heck could that story not be out. Surely there were ravens going back and forth on why he took off with her?

  • Fredrik
    Fredrik 2 years ago +23

    Nah it was Arya stark.
    -why?
    -cause some mistress said Arya would close some blue eyes.
    -wait... but didnt she alsow said Stannis was azora ahai? and that he needed to kill his daughter for reasons?
    -yupp, around the same time too.
    -SO she could have be wrong?
    -nope, around season 7-8 she kinda knew what she was doing for some reason, and her god was just "POFF IM HERE NOW BITCHES".
    -how about Blood related to Targaryen?
    -nope that was wrong
    -Born in smoke and salt?
    -Nope alsow wrong.
    -Any sign of lighbringer, the legendary sword?
    -NOPE, it was one of the first dagger you ever saw in the series that killed the darkness.
    -Reborn under a Red stars bleed?
    -nope.
    -"glimps of azura ahai only brings me snow"
    -... i guess she lived in winterfell? but thats streching it.
    but with all seriousness D&D single handedly killed the series.
    I still have a HUGE respect for the
    Actors,Music makers,Cloth department, sound engineers, Cgi Crew and Cameracrew (except the darkness in that fight )
    it was an amazing season none the less.

    • Fredrik
      Fredrik 2 years ago +2

      @Ankit Singh what?... you didnt read the actuak thing? xD hahaha
      its comparing how arya stark is NOT azora ahai hahahahahah

    • Ankit Singh
      Ankit Singh 2 years ago +3

      Lol was that to make everyone laugh huh? Little Arya's fan boy...cozz she isn't the Azor Ahai and she was just a minor character in the books

  • Alt Shift X
    Alt Shift X  5 years ago +2315

    To clarify the conclusion - Rhaegar probably wasn't riding to the Trident expecting to die there - he tells Jaime that he plans to call a council after the battle. But it's still plausible that Rhaegar had some general suspicion that his death, and the deaths of his family, might be part of his prophetic destiny - and that this foreknowledge contributed to his melancholy and sense of doom.
    Or maybe he had no idea and was only in it for his bae Lyanna - "Rubies flew like drops of blood from the chest of a dying prince, and he sank to his knees in the water and with his last breath murmured a woman’s name"
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    • Frank Migliore
      Frank Migliore Month ago

      I think so much of the brilliance of the Revellion’s story is taken away if it was all Rhaegar’s plan. I think instead he demonstrates how even the most “promising” prince can ruin themselves by falling for prophecy and self obsession.
      And if he knew what would happen, it’s hard to root for a guy who literally abandoned his wife and kids to die, which doesn’t make sense considering his belief that “the dragon has three heads”.

    • how ya Doin mate
      how ya Doin mate Year ago

      Wtf is that womans Name

    • The Program
      The Program 2 years ago +1

      @Rhee Ventures Elia was a dornishwoman, so it's possible given what we know about sexual mores in dorne that even if she wasn't dying, she was all for Rhaegar marrying Lyanna and setting up a threeway. There's already precedent for Targaryens practicing polygamy.
      We don't know whose name Rhaegar was calling. Everyone assumes it was Lyanna, which makes so much sense that I wonder if it was someone else, because otherwise why conceal the name? Dany knew the story of Elia and Lyanna; what if it was a name she didn't recognize or understand?
      My guess is that Rhaegar knew he and his House were doomed, but not precisely when/how. I'm wondering if he thought his unborn child was Visenya, and said HER name as he died.
      One other thing, since I'm listing... things. The original birth order was Visenya, Aegon, and Rhaenys. So why does Rhaegar name his kids in reverse order? Why is Rhaenys the eldest? Well, Visenya was the Dark Sister, the combat-ready ruthless one. Maybe he decided that the gentle Elia would give him the gentle and kind-hearted Rhaenys, and that he needed some tougher First Man lineage to give him the warrior woman Visenya.

    • tabulldog27
      tabulldog27 2 years ago

      As Marwyn would say, prophecy bit his prick off.

    • Chaimae ⵣ
      Chaimae ⵣ 3 years ago

      @Hex it's so cliché and obvious for Grrm .
      It's just make jon the most typical standart fantasy protagonist .
      Daenerys fits Rhaegar's prophecy more than anyone .

  • HypliX'
    HypliX' 2 years ago +1

    True that, they became 3 siblings after Rhaegar died. And he was the crownprince, and the prince that was promised since everybody wanted him to be king instead of Aerys II. He forged Lightbringer with Lyanna, Jon. Jon is Lightbringer

  • iwantgoals 15
    iwantgoals 15 3 years ago +16

    The more I watch videos like this the more I realise what the final season was going for and how much they fucked up trying to deliver it. It’s like S8 was a speed run of the whole series I swear.

  • Silja peters
    Silja peters 2 years ago +4

    10 months late but who cares.
    It’s so mind blown how much thought George RR Martin put into this. All of these events take place BEFORE the story even begins. It’s insane. It’s incredible.

  • Aldiggy2000
    Aldiggy2000 2 months ago

    Man I sure hope Jon spin off really brings Jon into ultimate power. He got cheated last 2 seasons of Game of Thrones. He revived and has this incredible hero skill but was short lived.

  • Ariba Faheem
    Ariba Faheem 5 years ago +40

    This is a plausible theory but I still think Rhaegar made awful, impulsive decisions that unnecessarily worsened the situation. If he'd just carried on with the political strategising he would've taken the throne and then would've been able to take a more active role in the fight against the white walkers. It would've averted the biggest problem the characters have been facing in the series, that people are too busy fighting amongst themselves to pay attention to the real threat.

    • Megalithic Witch Blood
      Megalithic Witch Blood 13 days ago

      If he hadn't eloped with lyanna on the day that he did, their son wouldn''t have been born under a comet and wouldn't have fit the prophecy. The theory here, whether right or wrong, is that it was predestined and that he knew specifically what he had to do.

    • Kyle Pietrusiewicz
      Kyle Pietrusiewicz 4 years ago +5

      Ariba Faheem hindsight is 20/20

  • Pedroalí Tovar
    Pedroalí Tovar 3 years ago

    13:55 so, if Jon is Lightbringer, it is possible Dany be Azor Ahai, who will use his fire sword warden (Jon) to fight the Last War. It is said that the Dragon must have three heads, with Dany and Jon they would be two, but what if Rhaegars waa the third one and he didn't know? The three heads are supossed to be the help of the Azor Ahai (including himself), so, they said they must be three heads... but they say at the same time? By Rhaegars actions we can see he helped Azor Ahai (Dany) a warrior (Jon) who knows the true enemy. Or however, if Jon is Azor Ahai, Dany anyway is the other dragon head who is made to help Azor Ahai in the Battle for the Dawn

    • Bababuwi
      Bababuwi 2 years ago

      Jon is Azor Ahai, although in the show Jon didn’t used the Lightbringer to end the Great War nor was he the one that truly ended it. I think the part where “Azor Ahai tempered Lightbringer with the heart’s blood of his own beloved wife” is parallel to the scene where Jon kills Daenerys.

  • Love and Peace
    Love and Peace 2 years ago +1

    Isn’t John Snow, a.k.a. Rhaegar’s son Aegon, the prince that was promised? He fulfills the prophecy does he not?

  • jimmy
    jimmy Year ago

    Did Rhaegar know the complete meaning of the Prince that was promised? That the Others were coming? Do you think he expected to be fighting in the great war?

  • Revan
    Revan Month ago

    Great dialogue with even more excellent visuals. With GOT & HOD, its hard to keep track of everyone. A damn eco-map couldn’t draw it all out as best as you did. My 2 remaining brain cells thank you!

  • Master Jiraiya
    Master Jiraiya Month ago

    I think Regar and Reynera Kind of have the same story going on. As I’m listening to this video from watching House of the Dragon I’m imagining every time you say Ray Gar‘s name I substituted for Reynera’s name and the stories almost seem similar. Regard follow love instead of duty and it caused the destruction of his house. And same could be said with Reynaeras! She is well chose love or her own personal self interest over duty and it caused the dance of dragons 🤔

  • JRF
    JRF 3 years ago

    The prince that was promised was Jon Snow, and the imminent darkness he was supposed to destroy weren’t the White Walkers, it was the Mad Queen

  • Gladys Casida
    Gladys Casida 2 days ago

    imagine if Rhaegar had a dragon, he could easily defeat Robert and his army by then

  • Eli Avi
    Eli Avi 28 days ago

    I think if the books go that way if they are ever finished Jon's Targeryan name should be Viserys III, because it kind of sounds like Visenya and Rhaegar wanted the three heads of the dragons. He also didn't know he would get another son. Either that or Aemon, like the Dragon knight or Daemon which is George R. R. Martin's favorite character.

  • LoneWolfRomero
    LoneWolfRomero 3 months ago +1

    Rhaegar was never meant to rule. His parents were siblings brother and sister.
    His grandparents were also siblings brother and sister.
    That means his grandparents from both his dad side and his mother side are the same. Only one grandfather and one grandmother.
    Then her younger sister slept with his son, Jon and Daenerys.
    He even named Jon Aegon when his first born son with Elia Martel was already named Aegon.
    He also couldn’t defeat Robert Baratheon. He was never meant to be king.

  • Luiza Maxim
    Luiza Maxim 11 months ago

    What about the old theory about Varys trying to save the children of Elia and Rhaegar and hide them in Essos, but only Aegon lived from the Mountain? I think that brings a little more questions...

  • MLGivens
    MLGivens 3 years ago +1

    Jon is Azor Ahai. The first death Rhagar in water, the second was the death of Ned by the Lion and the third was Jon killing Dany and literbringer was the dagger he used to kill her.

  • MrFantastic
    MrFantastic 23 days ago

    If Game of Thrones had a few episodes explaining just this. With flashbacks. I mean... The world would've loved its ending.
    I loved Game of Thrones' ending. It was the true end to the game of getting the throne. And fulfilling the prophecy about Jon. And a Song of Ice and Fire.