Tap to unmute

The Grand Maester Conspiracy: what are the maesters up to?

Share
Embed
  • Published on Jan 5, 2016
  • Is there a Grand Maester Conspiracy in Game of Thrones / ASOIAF? Were the maesters behind the decline of the Targaryens, dragons and magic?
    This video contains major spoilers for Book 5 / Season 5.
    Thanks to Ertaç Altınöz for helping out with some imagery - check out his awesome art: ertacaltinoz.deviantart.com/
    Subscribe: x-vid.net/channel/UCveZ...
    Support on Patreon: www.patreon.com/AltShiftX
    Twitter: altshiftx
    Created with Adobe After Effects, a Wacom Intuos Pen Tablet, and a Blue Yeti USB microphone.
    Images and video from Game of Thrones are the property of their creators, used here under fair use.
    Thanks to the following Patrons:
    xandria lenert, @MrFifaSA, Cameron Weiss, @Vineyarddawg, Michael Appell, zyad aloqily, @AdamWritesPlays, Fred Petty, Jason Rattray, Madeline Cockrel.
    Thanks to María Mariño Costa for the Spanish subtitles.

Comments • 2 278

  • whirled peas
    whirled peas 6 years ago +6456

    Sometimes when reading GoT and associated lore I sometimes stop myself and think, "Wait, none of this is real"

    • ArcaneTuber
      ArcaneTuber 10 days ago

      @whirled peas If the theory of the Multiverse is true, then who knows? GoT might be real somewhere 🙃 😆

    • Free Bird
      Free Bird Month ago

      Let me enjoy this please. Reality sucks.

    • Tinky Winky
      Tinky Winky 2 months ago

      @Upstream53 Your arrogance is truly powerful.
      Dipshit.

    • Tinky Winky
      Tinky Winky 2 months ago

      @ArcheEnemy If that is unfortunate, then just stop.

    • Tinky Winky
      Tinky Winky 2 months ago

      @Hoblem Dumb conclusion.

  • Ze-TopHat-Gamer
    Ze-TopHat-Gamer 6 years ago +4657

    Can we talk about how long it would take to get the quotes alone. Not counting all the editing and images. These videos are crazy well made.

    • Steven Hoye
      Steven Hoye 20 days ago

      @She-He huha 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉

    • James Amor
      James Amor Month ago

      I agree ztg

    • Joseph Mendoza
      Joseph Mendoza 2 months ago

      Like 30secs tops

    • Post Punk 69
      Post Punk 69 4 months ago

      @lorenzo fedeli Search of Ice and Fire site. Simple as that.

    • lorenzo fedeli
      lorenzo fedeli 4 months ago +2

      Don’t know how he did it but I would download all the books in pdf and just search for keywords so that all mentions of that name or thing pop up automatically

  • Joe W.
    Joe W. 3 years ago +3960

    "Maesters are supposed to be politically neutral"
    GRAND MAESTER PYCELLE BURSTS OUT LAUGHING.

    • jack steel
      jack steel 8 months ago +22

      @Tyler Love There's a far more subtle scene in season 1 or 2 where he gets out of bed after one of little fingers spies sleeps with him and he cracks his back, shakes out his hands and dresses. Then he goes to the door and slowly arches his back right down and walks out far slower then before he opened the door.
      It was a perfect hint

    • MegaKnight2012
      MegaKnight2012 Year ago +2

      *Pycelle hides laughing through weak sounding wheezing gasps*

    • Sbeve
      Sbeve Year ago +2

      @Tyler Love exactly thats whats i meant :D best scene ever

    • Tyler Love
      Tyler Love Year ago +58

      I wish they would have included that scene with him and Tywin on the beach when Tywin is fishing, it was one of the best scenes they ever made and yet they removed it from the final version of the episode for some reason. When Tywin called him out on his act and he his whole voice changed and he stopped stuttering completely and even stood straight up meaning he was faking cripple and didn’t even need that cane 😂 I remember so many scenes where I wanted someone to call him out on that bs confused stuttering and somehow it never happened except for that scene I just mentioned that was cut, you can find it on YT tho.

    • Uranium-238
      Uranium-238 Year ago +38

      Maegor the cruel had 3 politically neutral maesters, cuz he kept chopping off their heads

  • Benjamin Ritchey
    Benjamin Ritchey 6 years ago +1966

    It's so easy to forget the depth of these books when we complain about Martin taking so long to write them...

    • Zone Read
      Zone Read 2 days ago

      I agreed with this comment, 6 years ago when it was posted 😂

    • Kiya Lee Levy Runaya
      Kiya Lee Levy Runaya 4 days ago

      @Vin london then why don't you go and write a world class, best selling, novel series, if it's that easy?
      Criticizing something you can't even do yourself?
      Talk about the height of entitled priviligism.

    • Vin london
      Vin london 4 days ago

      @Kiya Lee Levy Runaya this is the only legacy he will be known for.
      Other stuff that he's written are not that great.
      If you can't finish your only masterpiece, what more can I say?
      Pace has nothing to do with it either.

    • Kiya Lee Levy Runaya
      Kiya Lee Levy Runaya 5 days ago

      @Vin london ah yes, because as we all know. Literally every person works and lives at the exact same pace.
      🤦‍♂️

    • Vin london
      Vin london 6 days ago

      @Kiya Lee Levy Runaya nietzsche wrote about 4 books and lots of essays within a year or so.
      His books are vastly more complicated than any of Martin's work.
      Therefore you can write fast and complicated stuff, if you want to.
      Also age has nothing to do with it.
      Immanuel Kant wrote his first important book in early 60's and he wrote many after that.
      I think this writer has writer's block.
      I mean, his writing is not that complicated, rather average I'd say, and he still hasn't written anything in 10 years. Howling finished all her books within this time frame.

  • DarthBauernkind
    DarthBauernkind 6 years ago +848

    I don't think Maester Aemon's statement that he came to be the Maester of the Night's Watch of his own will and Marwyn's words contradict each other. The text says "Ask yourself why he was ALLOWED to waste his life upon the Wall". I'd say it was Aemon's own choice and the other Maesters didn't oppose it, because it seemed convenient to them: The Targaryen removes himself from the picture. It implies that they would have argued against someone like Aemon going to the Wall if he WASN'T a Targaryen, because they wouldn't want someone as talented/knowledgeable "wasting" himself on the Night's Watch, when they would need/want him as an archmaester

  • 48348328 132
    48348328 132 6 years ago +2609

    It's a shame HBO are gonna rush the next 2 seasons.
    Edited 07/08/2020: Wow I hate being right.

  • Ryeguy123a
    Ryeguy123a 6 years ago +555

    For there to be a big 'maester conspiracy' it doesn't mean that all maesters would have to be in on it. It could just be a relatively small, but powerful, contingent of elites within the maesters. So guys like Crennen and even the Grand Maester may have no idea, and their ignorance of any grand plot could even be something by design.
    For a conspiracy to work, I imagine you don't want a whole heckuva lot of people to know about it -- because each additional person is a risk. IMO, you'd want as few as possible to be successful.

    • Hoku
      Hoku 14 days ago +1

      *A GRAND Northern conspiracy, you say?*

    • rr ww
      rr ww 6 months ago

      Pycelle is the Uncle Junior
      for the Maester conspiracy syndicate,
      speaking categorically of course

    • Warcrimes Incorporated
      Warcrimes Incorporated 8 months ago +2

      @Iggy Zeta agreed, this is the take I have on the maesters as well.

    • drawcula
      drawcula 8 months ago

      Very true. I wonder if GRRM was inspired by the conspiracy to assassinate Julius Caeser at all? The leaders of that conspiracy were VERY selective about who to include, not only because they couldn't be sure of whether potential co-conspirator's loyalties would lie with them or Caeser once they showed their hand, but also as you said.. the more people that know a secret, the harder it is to keep.
      Idk, it just gives me similar vibes ~

    • Iggy Zeta
      Iggy Zeta 10 months ago +12

      I think it's more down to the mindset that the Citadel engenders in its maesters. All of them bar Marwyn are extremely wary and skeptical of magic. This is directly from the training that the Citadel offers: they let people forge Valyrian steel links and they sit them in front of a glass candle fruitlessly for an entire night. No institutional conspiracy, just institutional culture.

  • Fonzop
    Fonzop 3 years ago +714

    I like how one of the dragons' name is "Sheepstealer"

    • Sarah Needle
      Sarah Needle Month ago +1

      And yet he is one of the only dragons to not have a definitive fate/death. Though The Cannibal is even weirder as at least Sheepstealer and Nettles are explained as running away, but The Cannibal just… disappeared

    • Jamie_ D0G
      Jamie_ D0G 4 months ago +1

      @Pedro Henrique Porto My neighbor got a pitbull called colchoneta

    • Ariane Winter
      Ariane Winter 6 months ago +3

      @Pedro Henrique Porto only a cerberus

    • Pedro Henrique Porto
      Pedro Henrique Porto 7 months ago

      Have you ever seen a pitbull named flufffy or something?

    • Giorgi Garsevanidze
      Giorgi Garsevanidze Year ago +2

      @Oscar Quintero Fucking badass

  • Loba Étoile
    Loba Étoile 5 years ago +292

    Cressen was a good person, I actually felt sad when he died. Plus, if I was him, I would also fear Melissandre and her black destructive magic.

    • Nunya Biznes
      Nunya Biznes Month ago +3

      I was just sad reading his prologue. He should have been neutral and didn't interfere (it didn't seem he gotthw order fr the Citadel) but he loved the family too much that he took initiative into eliminating what he believe was tearing the family apart.

    • doopdoop dopdop
      doopdoop dopdop 3 months ago

      Same man. And it contributes to my burning desire to see Mel burned and replaced with good ol’ Thoros.

  • Alex The Huntsman
    Alex The Huntsman 5 years ago +3704

    Guess you could call it their...Maester Plan

  • ExDee
    ExDee Year ago +80

    "killing the dragons" means "killing the Targaryens" which Pycelle directly oversaw and virtually succeeded in doing at the end of Robert's Rebellion, when he got Aerys to open the gates to Tywin, who he knew would kill them all.

    • Muhammad Eisa
      Muhammad Eisa 2 months ago +5

      @Jamie_ D0G or he could simply be referring to Jaime as the mighty dragon hunter, given that he killed Aerys.

    • Jamie_ D0G
      Jamie_ D0G 10 months ago +11

      No, after asking who he thinks that killed the dragons last time he said:some mighty dragon hunters? So he's clearly referring to the animal dragin and not the Targs

  • JeffsSoul
    JeffsSoul 6 years ago +379

    Point of order (@ about 7:25mins), regarding the growth of Dany's dragons. 'A Dance with Dragons' clearly tells us that while the dragon Drogon is free and flying around, he grows much bigger than the other two, who are kept in chains in a closed pit. So, captive dragons indeed do NOT grow as large as one left free.

    • Duke G.Rabbit
      Duke G.Rabbit Month ago

      @Luke Robinson It is bigger, only second to the Black Dread if I'm not mistaken

    • Luke Robinson
      Luke Robinson 2 months ago +1

      @Alt Shift X isn't The Cannibal bigger than Drogon? Or potentially bigger?

    • Muenni
      Muenni 9 months ago +13

      Birds grow up in a nest, but if you never allow them to spread their wings, then watch their muscles wither. Those dragons can't even go and stretch their legs much, let alone their wings. All of their muscles might be underdeveloped and not all of that can be made up with later training/excercise.

    • LJK401
      LJK401 Year ago +9

      @Marwan Ali They don't like being chained up though, it's not like they stay in those caves forever

    • Marwan Ali
      Marwan Ali Year ago +2

      I'm sorry this is old as heck but dragons not growing In captivity makes no sense. Dragons naturally like caves so one would assume that they would grow perfectly well if they like the place

  • milesmcstylez
    milesmcstylez 6 years ago +1929

    You missed a pretty important detail, which is that in a Dance with Dragons, Tyrion mentions that somewhere in the Citadel is a book explaining *how to kill dragons*. It's heavily implied that *that's* what Jaqen is looking for, and why he needs an archmaester's key.
    The Faceless Men hate Valyrians and dragons even more than the maesters do, so it would make sense that Jaqen's mission is to figure out how to kill Daenerys' dragons. But the fact that the maesters even have that book in the first place backs up Marwyn's claim that they killed off the Targaryen dragons.

    • LordVader1094
      LordVader1094 2 months ago +1

      @Samir Raza It's far from "easily" done. It's merely possible

    • ccole10
      ccole10 3 months ago +3

      @MR. K D&D are trash, what harm they did!

    • MySisterIsAFoodie
      MySisterIsAFoodie 3 months ago +2

      According to Dan and Danner you just shoot a regular XXL arrow into them, does the trick :)

    • William Copper
      William Copper 3 months ago +3

      Maybe this theory will be shown in house of the dragon!

    • lhermite
      lhermite 4 months ago

      Could it mean that Arya is going to be involved in a Dragon's death?, further proving how D&D were complete idiots for not catching the idea and giving jon and arya the wrong targets in the show.

  • Dank Donut
    Dank Donut 21 day ago +5

    Just came back to this and realized that after seeing season 1 of HOTD, it does seem like the maester's played some part in speeding the demise of king Viserys. Meaning that it could have been interpretted by Marwin that the maester's were responsible for killing Viserys while they knew that there was bad blood surrounding who was regarded as his rightful heir, creating the conflict of the dance of dragons and killing off the dragons.

  • Scott Bilger
    Scott Bilger Year ago +69

    Most of the maesters we've met are extremely loyal to their appointed or chosen lords. Pycelle is devoted to the Lannisters. Aemon is loyal to the Night's Watch. Sam is loyal to Jon. Leuwin to the Starks. Cressen to Stannis. Even vile Qyburn seems loyal to Cersei. It seems that every maester has his own agenda based on his own loyalties -- like everyone else is Westeros.

    • LF 3400
      LF 3400 2 months ago +3

      Qyburn is a 100% not loyal to cersei, but he's not loyal to the maester either that's sure. We have no real proof Luwin is loyal to the starks. Pycelle is specifically not loyal to his lord (and helped killed the last targaryen king).
      Maesters are only loyal to the citadel and only a few in the citadel actually know the end goal. Most maesters are clueless pawn I would say

  • Mark R
    Mark R 6 years ago +151

    Maybe Marwyn is referring to the Targs being killed when he says dragons. The Targs often get referred to as dragons and he also says "gallant dragonslayers with swords", sounds kinda like the Kingslayer Jaime, the knight in shining armour sort of thing, with him being handsome and all. So eventually this would refer to the maesters not directly killing the Targs but causing the rebellion just like the other source stated (I forget the name), plus Pycelle personally contributing a great deal to the killing of the Targs.

    • Skjalg Stangnes
      Skjalg Stangnes 2 months ago

      They may have sabotaged the ritual at summerhall to kill the targarians

    • TheAshenNamedJerry
      TheAshenNamedJerry 6 years ago

      Luuk V pycelle is dead tho...

    • Mark R
      Mark R 6 years ago +4

      I meant Barbrey by the other source

  • SupahFly
    SupahFly Year ago +65

    What if the dragons got smaller over time due to inbreeding? This would make sense and would also be a nice nod to the fact that the targaryens were married off to each other to keep the bloodline pure. While most likely being part of the cause of them becoming less significant over time. As valerians i mean

    • Freddie McKellar
      Freddie McKellar 3 months ago +10

      Yeah this is a good theory but inbreeding does not apply to Valyrians or their dragons. The dragons went extinct because of a stupid civil war. and the reason they got smaller was because they were locked up in captivity for years.

    • Sarwat Arannya
      Sarwat Arannya 3 months ago

      @G The inbreeding didn't have any effect on them? Half of the fuckers went crazy

    • G
      G 3 months ago +14

      Both dragons and valyrians of old did inbreed for thousands of years
      They are not like common people and thus the laws of genetics dont apply to them, specially because it only needs 4-5 generations to all the offspring of subsequent inbreed to be stillborn, according to genetics
      They are magical people and magical creatures and thus the inbreed doesnt aplly to them

  • Saud Altwaijri
    Saud Altwaijri 2 months ago +27

    6 years later and after watching two episodes of house of the dragon i can agree with you + the high towers are involved 👍🏽

  • Jacob
    Jacob 2 years ago +162

    Pycelle had the right idea coming across as a poor old man, but he played his role too outwardly and was too political. If he had talked a bit less and stopped kissing the Lannister’s boots so much, he’d be living a lot more comfortably.

  • Donovan Brubaker
    Donovan Brubaker 3 years ago +76

    Well, the maesters “killing off all the dragons” could be a metaphor for a conspiracy to unseat the Targaryans and aid in Robert’s Rebellion.

  • Charlene Brash-Sorensen
    Charlene Brash-Sorensen 5 years ago +38

    Quick thought--"killing all the dragons" might well mean the killing of the actual Targaryen blood line--the Kings/Queens. Perhaps they contributed to the "madness" of Aerys--providing potions causing hallucinations and paranoia?

  • ShatteredDawn
    ShatteredDawn 6 years ago +47

    I think it's important to remember that a conspiracy involving maesters doesn't necessarily involve all or even the majority of them. It could be a small clique of influential ones exerting pressure on other maesters and lords

  • Orsolya Pámer
    Orsolya Pámer 5 years ago +9

    Question: Are the maesters considering the Starks magical house too? Because they are (wolfblood, wargs), but the knowledge for warging and that they are wargs at all is forgotten, lost. Do the maesters know about them that wargs really exist? And House Stark is a family with a strong magical blood in their veins either? They are in denial about the existence of White Walkers, so maybe they are in denial about every other northern magic either.

  • Llama?
    Llama? 2 years ago +15

    Maester Pycelle is shown to be quite manipulative in the deleted scene where he and Tywin have a conversation. He drops the character and speaks freely, showing his intelligence and capability in a conspiracy.

  • EviilKneviil
    EviilKneviil 21 day ago +4

    This also was shown the last episode of hotd. When the maester read the letter to Lord Borros. He could make it sound more angry, so Borrod would choose the greens.

  • ComradeSlice
    ComradeSlice 6 years ago +149

    Lady Dustin only hates the Maesters because it was a Maester who recommended the wedding between Brandon Stark and Caetelyn Tully. Brandon took Lady Dustin's maidenhead and she wanted to marry him. Of course he strangled himself to death so she should really get over it...

    • Jamie_ D0G
      Jamie_ D0G 4 months ago

      She really sound like a vindictive witch most of the time, so that's probably all she got against maesters

    • Tarumpaw
      Tarumpaw 2 years ago +15

      Brandon Stark was an asshole.

    • ibuprofem
      ibuprofem 6 years ago +19

      For a moment I thought you meant our Bran and I was like "when did that happen"

  • Jak
    Jak 5 years ago +5

    I genuinely believe that at the *very* least, the Hightowers have long been manipulating events to gain the upper hand, and try to achieve the throne. Dance is a big example, but with the Faith and the Citadel both in Oldtown, they could be behind a lot of what has happened to the Targaryens throughout the years outside of the obvious situation with Alicent.

  • Boco Corwin
    Boco Corwin 3 years ago +22

    I dunno why. But whenever I read the term "glass candles," I imagine lightbulbs. Like the maesters are keeping electricity a secret or something lol

  • Naynay
    Naynay Year ago +9

    I think a strong point of evidence in favor of the Masters (and Hightowers) at least starting the Dance of Dragons is that when Rhaenyra sent a message asking Baratheon to join her cause, Baratheon responded that he wouldn't be called like some dog, and said this i believe with his master right by his side. It's totally conceivable that the Master of his purposely read the message in a much more demanding/negative tone than Rhaenyra intended so that she wouldn't get them as allies

  • Long John Teabag
    Long John Teabag 6 years ago +4551

    What if grand maester Pycelle is actually Jon Snow's mother?

  • David Greene
    David Greene 4 years ago +17

    From my reading of the books, magic has a life cycle with ebbs and flows. It explains the heights and lows of magic. These ebbs and flows last years slowly building and once they reach a peak they slowly recede, the dragons and their growth over is the best example. I believe the Doom was the apex and the sign of the fall of magic over the next decades.

  • Kerebas
    Kerebas 5 years ago +24

    I always thought that when Marwyn said that, he was referring that the maesters had something to do with the disaster at Summerhall.

  • Tim Hollmann
    Tim Hollmann 6 years ago +54

    Correct if I'm wrong, but didn't Varys say I quote "I, my dear Lord Tyrion, work for the realm, somebody has to." Strange that Varys would add that last little bit. Seems to me as though he is implying that he, and only him, wishes the best for the realm and not just himself.
    I believe that this little piece of evidence strongly supports the claim that the Maesters only want to support their own interests rather than helping the realm.

  • Yana Sto
    Yana Sto 6 years ago +284

    The two dragons that Dany chained up were much smaller than the dragon she left free...

    • Oscar Quintero
      Oscar Quintero 3 years ago +19

      @Mohamed El Farisy Balerion was older than Vaghar and Meraxes. He was the last living thing to see Valyria before the doom.

    • WafflingMean44
      WafflingMean44 4 years ago +57

      I think the reason Drogon was always the biggest is because he established in their infancy that he was the alpha. That meant whenever he wanted it, he could get a bit more food if he wanted. From what we can tell, dragons grow at a rate which depends on their food and exercise. Once the other dragons were locked up, they were given specifically determined and equal amounts of food at specific times. Drogon on the other hand constantly exercised through hunting and had as much food as he wanted. And when they were free to hunt on their own, he did that more than the others, such as when they went fishing on their way to Astapor. It kind of depends on their nature, because before they were locked up, Viserion preferred to laze around at the top of Dany's pyramid while Drogon was constantly hunting.
      So I think the precedent for their growth being slowed by captivity is there, but that doesn't mean the maesters played no part. It's the perfect cover story for if they did indeed poison them.

    • ftbllguy2
      ftbllguy2 5 years ago +80

      I'm pretty sure it was at least implied that them being chained up was at least partially responsible for the size difference since Rhaegal and Viserion are about the same size. It's most definitely possible that Drogon just always would've been bigger and that the relatively brief amount of time that Rhaegal and Viserion were imprisoned only limited their growth slightly though.

    • Auronius
      Auronius 6 years ago +85

      And Drogon was already bigger than the other two at birth/early on.

    • Mohamed El Farisy
      Mohamed El Farisy 6 years ago +37

      well Aegon's dragon was bigger than his sisters own and none of them were chained

  • HolyknightVader999
    HolyknightVader999 6 years ago +5

    As for Cressen, I have the same thoughts as with Pycelle. Perhaps Cressen was both loyal to a conspiracy of Maesters against magic and loved Stannis. Perhaps he was trying to kill two birds with one stone. By trying to kill Melisandre, he would serve the other Maesters in their plans and save Stannis from evil. Perhaps they didn't write down everything Cressen thought........

  • S N
    S N 5 years ago +16

    what about maester Luwin? he basically manipulated Jon Snow to join the nights watch when Ned and Benjen didnt want him to.

  • Darkfireice
    Darkfireice 3 years ago +4

    I like how all those who are proponent to the conspiracy in the mythos are typical conspiracy theorists archetypes; a jilted lover and an expert of a percieved useless field and good old bigotry and boom conspiracy theory

  • Dziobakowski
    Dziobakowski 27 days ago +4

    Watching these lore videos now is risky af. When you mentioned dance of the dragons I had to turn it off to avoid spoilers from House of The Dragon

  • Gingrnut
    Gingrnut 6 years ago +726

    I have never been more baffled at GRRM's attention to detail than I was when I saw the names of 21 archmaesters, one of which we've actually seen in the books. This man is freakishly into detail.

    • Arcaryon
      Arcaryon Year ago +1

      @iSlippery Fellow He is 73 so 75 would be a good time for his next big release, hope for spring might come out when he is 85 but most importantly, from a purely literary standpoint, if he writes enough of it to know where it goes, someone else can finish it in his name.
      I don’t know if he will do it himself but I am very certain that in a few years, we will have a full series, one way or another - although I would absolutely prefer it if he would get in a better physical shape and did it himself.
      Regardless, I will not wait for him to get finished as, luckily, we already live in an supersaturated age in terms of available entertainment.

    • iSlippery Fellow
      iSlippery Fellow Year ago +3

      @Arcaryon I don't doubt his intentions. Unlike everyone else, I do actually believe that he'll release winds of winter in probably a year or two. But you have to keep in mind that he wasn't exactly writing two books side by side so he'll start work on hope for spring after he's finished with winds of winter. Even if releasing a book motivates him, you can expect a 5 to 6 year gap between winds of winter and hope for spring. Let's just hope that he looks after himself and stays healthy.

    • Arcaryon
      Arcaryon Year ago +3

      @iSlippery Fellow Not necessarily.
      Martin is old but publishing one more book could ultimately give him the motivation he needs to really put his soul back into the project. He may be slow but he doesn’t want to leave the series unfinished.

    • iSlippery Fellow
      iSlippery Fellow Year ago +3

      @`` Well then, my guess is that we'll probably get winds of winter next year or the year after that and should probably lose all hope for a dream of spring.

    • ``
      `` Year ago +9

      @iSlippery Fellow he started writing them at the same time and they were originally going to be the same book though

  • According to
    According to Year ago +2

    Idk if this also happened in the books, but when Daenerys went to the House of the Undying, the warlock said that when her dragons came back, so did their magic. Maybe that’s why the Maesters are anti-dragon.

  • V-III-B-59 Suyash Kohachade

    Also the summerhall tragedy, I truly believe that maesters didn't want the eggs to hatch with help of wildfire, look how many targeryns died. Only sad part is that egg died 😔 and mad king lived

  • Jay Nando
    Jay Nando 6 years ago +3

    7:20 In the books, Daenerys keeps Viserys and Rheagar enclosed while Drogon roams free and it is noted that Drogon was much bigger than the other two. So at least in the books, what the maesters say about dragons is true.

  • Santi Auditore
    Santi Auditore 5 years ago +18

    Great video, love all of them! I wonder if you could make a video about "Tragedy at Summerhall"? The event seems interesting enough, all I know was sorcery(according to Ser Barristan) and dragon breeding was involved and it ended the life of Ser Duncan the Tall. I've heard that some people think it was a plot to end the Targaryens. Again, great work man. Keep it up!

    • Hoku
      Hoku 14 days ago +1

      DONE!

  • Austin Throop
    Austin Throop 4 years ago +3

    I also think one of Cressen's motivations was for Shireen, which kind of goes without saying considering how he viewed Stannis. His prologue chapter was extremely interesting to read. Freggin' patchface creeped me out the whole time and honestly I'm glad that the show's version of Cressen got to avoid the humiliation that he did in the book from Lady Selyse having Patchface put his tin bucket antler helm on the Maester.. I also feel like a lot of the motivation was to preserve the faith of the seven and I am not sure but was Cressen aware of Melisendre's plans to burn the Godswood on Dragonstone already? I think he felt like there was a lot of blasphemy more than magical badness on top of just a great love for Stannis and his family.

  • Mike Bruno
    Mike Bruno 6 years ago +2

    I seem to remember reading in TWOIAF that it wasn't the war directly that killed the dragons; it was the smallfolk! They got tired of being the primary victims of the Dance & rose up against the dragons. I could definitely see the Maesters being involved in inciting those riots

  • myrian rose
    myrian rose Year ago +4

    The maesters really are like facebook and Google (and youtube, for that matter). You don't really need something as motivated and thought-out as a conspiracy, just all the key players in place and serving their own interest, almost like an algorithm, or something. One of the things I love about this setting and series is that it's not a Big Bad Wizard responsible for every bad thing that happens. It's all complicated and chaotic and no-one is really in charge. This crazy dragon-magic feudalism-wank of a series is very true to life in that way

  • Dirk Haupt
    Dirk Haupt 3 years ago +3

    Doesn't that sentence by Marwyn just mean the Maesters are not open-minded enough to take magic seriously? I.e. old men stuck in their ways content to ignore the signs that candles are again lightable by magic? Their reasoning likely being they are scared what the knowledge might do whereas Marwyn thinks the world should know.
    This isn't a conspiracy. This is just plain old one reasonable ideology of information hazard vs another of freedom of information.

  • Guero
    Guero Month ago +5

    6 years later and we still waiting on that next book to find out what the maesters are up to

  • Kinsata
    Kinsata 5 years ago +19

    At 8:33 A maester cover up is still possible. They stock and tend to the libraries after all. Keeping books around not written by them but that also don't necessarily damn them would be a good way of making the cover up more concealed.

  • Hart Johnson
    Hart Johnson 6 years ago +2

    I'm curious if you've watched Preston Jacobs' series on Dragon genetics (as in who can ride and who can hatch). I often think he goes too far or pulls in oddball facts to support an odd theory, but this one fits very well--if the Maesters figured out the genetics of who could hatch dragons, they could have orchestrated the downfall by advising on who should wed whom. I definitely recommend watching. This one was nicely done, as always.

  • david lewis
    david lewis 2 years ago +3

    The problem I always had with this theory is it relies heavily on the testimony of two very unreliable people .
    Nothing suggests Marwyn is to be trusted. He is directly connected to Miri Maz dur and qyborn. His argument to Sam seems self serving. But at least he bares some authority of talking about things he would know.
    Lady Dustin is bitter, committed to destroying Ned's bones as a petty vengeance. She would also be totally on the outside of the plot she claims to know about.

  • Lucinda
    Lucinda 6 years ago +2

    Anyone else think Sam's only reason for still being alive is that he's going to discover written proof of Jon's parentage? It would make sense for the Maesters to have at least some form of information on the birth of Jon. I mean even if R+L=J turns out to be crap, and despite Ned being super honorable, even he would still need something more than some random hookup's word on paternal relations. Plus, as lovable as Sam is, his survival this far in the series has been insane. It also doesn't make sense for the Wall to just be able to send Sam down to the Citadel to be maester, why wouldn't they send their own replacement and refuse Sam?

  • Ecclesia Andune
    Ecclesia Andune 4 years ago +1

    I thought they 'killed the dragons' by suppressing magic in general. Dragons are tied to magic, we hear this in the books, as Danny is told magic is getting stronger because dragons exist. If the maesters suppress magic in general, could this weaken the dragons somehow?

  • brutalchicken
    brutalchicken 6 years ago +2

    Drogon's far larger than the other two and he's been roaming around. So there's bound to be some truth with indoor dragons being smaller that outdoor ones.

  • Public Comment
    Public Comment 3 years ago +1

    With regard to the Maesters and why they would be working against something they believe doesn't exist - I think that A) some Maesters do believe that magic is returning, B) that the return of magic is cyclical and inevitable, not a result of anything that the Maesters did or have done on the past, however C) the Maesters have so much invested in having people believe in their superior intellect and knowledge, they are riding a wave while attempting to control something they cannot control - BUT they may well be able to influence this as it goes down. Power percieved is power achieved.

  • Cold_Lazarus
    Cold_Lazarus 6 years ago +14

    I just wanted to thank you for taking the time to include captions with your videos. I'm hard of hearing (genetic defect) and a lot of times its a struggle to enjoy youtube vids because they don't bother with CC's. So thanks for letting my enjoy your great work :)

  • Acsion42
    Acsion42 3 years ago +2

    Maybe the 'conspiracy' is more of an institution, like jim crow, rather than a shady plot. Therefore any given maester is simply expected to hold anti-magic anti-targaryen views and act accordingly without being directed.

  • Dams
    Dams 5 years ago +51

    TBH maester conspiracy could be solved maybe if we could learn Pycelles and other maester family names.

    • Away With The Faeries
      Away With The Faeries 2 years ago +7

      Nathaniel Clark Gerion Lannister escaped Valyria and checked in at the Citadel. Pycelle is Tywin’s younger brother.

    • st4ne4rmthevill
      st4ne4rmthevill 3 years ago +20

      I think Pycelle is a Lannister

  • jonah hoff
    jonah hoff 6 years ago +1963

    Jet fuel can't melt obsidian beams.

    • Colin Sanders
      Colin Sanders 2 years ago

      But Cersei did 9-11 the Sept of Baelor

    • Noah Johnson
      Noah Johnson 2 years ago +1

      Not with that kind of attitude

    • MultiverseMedia Space
      MultiverseMedia Space 2 years ago +1

      @menagerie organization Oh, so you know my sis.

    • xPadge112x
      xPadge112x 3 years ago +2

      I'm telling ya man..there was reports of wildfire caches under the citadel. They blew it man.

    • Brian
      Brian 3 years ago +4

      Harrenhal was an inside job

  • Elijah Canning
    Elijah Canning 3 years ago +5

    I was disappointed that the Maester plotline is completely removed from the show. There is even a faceless man there up to something.

  • Blaine M
    Blaine M 6 years ago +1

    If you look at the history of the dance with dragons, it was Alicent Hightower who disobeyed her husband's will of succession to put her half-Andal son Aegon II on the Iron Throne. Her husband Viserys I had wanted his wholly Targaryen and first-born daughter Rhaenyra to succeed him. It was Hightower treachery that caused the death and downfall of the dragons.

  • Nathan
    Nathan 2 months ago +1

    I think it’s fairly obvious that they’re meant to represent a high priesthood class. Originally a parallel hierarchy, which inevitably gains influence and political power.

  • Blood Falcon Fantastic
    Blood Falcon Fantastic 4 years ago +1

    I think theres enough evidence to make a case for a conspiracy against the Targs. I always thought it was weird how the main families from each kingdom never really married other major families, except for right before Robert's rebellion. Stark+Baratheon marriage, Tully+Stark marriage, possible Tully+Lannister marriage, possible Lannister+Martell marriage, Arryn+Tully Marriage. I think they were trying to form a supergroup to stand against Targaryen rule.

  • k m
    k m 6 years ago +2133

    Dany is known as the "Breaker of Chains." The maesters all wear a heavy chain, almost like it's their sigil = MINDBLOWN!

    • Ariane Winter
      Ariane Winter 6 months ago

      thats a great catch, especialy since their chains rest quite snug against their throat like a collar

    • ColdHands
      ColdHands Year ago +2

      If I were a powerful person or a Lord I would take Marwyns Valyrian mask and take the Valyrian part of the chain from each maester and melt it down into a sword.

    • Odin Satanas
      Odin Satanas 2 years ago +2

      Hahaha I mean.. that's a huge stretch. It's like saying she'll kill stoneheart because she's the "mother" of dragons and Cat is a mother hahaha
      But wow..comments from 4 years ago.. when we had already waited 5 years for Dance and thought it was coming soon hahahahaha, fucking hell

    • Opie Taylor
      Opie Taylor 2 years ago +1

      But marwin, is on his way to dany

    • Aid kik
      Aid kik 2 years ago +1

      All ignore that slaves wore chains back in the day n yah.....

  • OneOnOne1162
    OneOnOne1162 6 years ago +1

    If I'm not mistaken when one of the Targaryen princelings goes to the Lord Baratheon of the time he gives his mother's offer and Baratheon seemed quite unhappy with it. Baratheon afterwards basically told the other princeling that he could go out from under his roof and kill princeling number 1. This was a contributing factor to the animosity between the two sides and there no longer being any chance of peaceful agreement, if I remember correctly. His maester read it to him, so the maesters could've been involved there. Also, the maester helping Nettles escape... if Nettles takes her dragon away from Westeros that solves the problem too, one less dragon in Westeros. Also, I'm not sure who suggested the Targaryens build a dragon pit, but could it have been the maesters knowing that they would stop getting as large (and thus would die more easily in battle)?
    Also, interestingly there's a deleted scene in the TV show with Tywin Lannister where Pycelle's stuttering, etc. really is revealed to be an act. So him decieving Cersei and Tyrion with his supposed breakdown could very well be part of that.
    I'm personally not convinced of this conspiracy, but you know I thought it was worth mentioning.

  • David Bodor
    David Bodor 6 years ago +6

    Killing the DRAGONS may mean killing Targaryens as they are regarded as dragons...or it may mean they manipulated the events in such a way as to kill both Targaryens and dragons off...

  • iii
    iii 4 years ago +1

    What if the maester "conspiracy" merely refers to ignorance and a lack of curiosity on their part?
    In other words, we know magic "exists" in the world, perhaps hidden away in the far-east, but the maesters are content with the glass candle demonstration and refuse to investigate other possible sources of magic? This lack of scholarly investigation could have "killed" magic because it seems that the maesters have a monopoly on information and higher learning

  • racoon_in_AnkhMorpork
    racoon_in_AnkhMorpork 2 years ago +1

    After the tragedy that was the ending of the GoT tv show, I had kind of forgotten about the fandom. Then, these videos randomly showed up in my youtube recommendations, and it really opened my eyes to the wonderful and intricate world building that these books contain. I definitely want to read the books now. I don’t know why I never even considered the idea of doing that before, but I finally realized they’re a must have for my arsenal in literature knowledge.
    Edit: sorry if the English is bad, non native speaker here :\

  • Dasbolt
    Dasbolt 4 years ago +1

    There is a small chance that the master of Westeros are an early branch off the Faceless Men. Why they give up their names and serve for the greater good I think that the masks of the arch maester are what makes me think of it. They were set there early in Westeros' history to guide and shape the history of this continent like they did for the fall of Valeria and then for the City of Bravos

  • R Nickerson
    R Nickerson 5 years ago +1

    I'm pretty sure there's a point in the books where they say Rhaegal and Viserion grew much more slowly, and are significantly smaller than Drogon when he returns. Drogon's been out in the open the whole time, Rhaegal and Viserion were caged for a while. It makes sense biologically for caging them to make them smaller. There's definitely enough evidence to say that being caged at least HELPED them be small.

  • Waleed Khan
    Waleed Khan 6 years ago +1

    I don't think that there's one huge conspiracy going on. Like you said, I think the maesters have pulled a couple strings in the past and, among the archmaesters, this is common knowledge. It makes sense that men of learning would distrust magic and would see it wiped out. So it probably has less to do with a grand scheme, and more so with the nature of the maesters.

  • MGGM
    MGGM 16 days ago +2

    6:01 Could it make sense for this to be a reference to Summerhall. The "last" attempt to bring dragons into the world and thus the last time when the maesters could have interfered.

  • Elfstone77
    Elfstone77 6 years ago +1

    Maybe when Marwyn is talking about killing all dragons, he's referring to the events of Summerhall which remain a mystery. We know King Aegon was trying to hatch dragons which ended in disaster. Perhaps he was sabotaged by his maester?

  • Sean Saunders
    Sean Saunders 3 years ago +1

    I think the plot is as simple as moving from magic and fantasy to science and data. The more magic and sorcery, the less they control/influence.

  • Cernunnos
    Cernunnos 3 years ago +7

    Just rewatching this again. Very slick production.
    Imagine if this much effort was put into researching real historical events. Don't get me wrong, I'm as obsessed about this as anyone here. At this point, you and a handful of others, have actually produced unofficial college courses of fictional historical events. We are a silly bunch.

  • jørgen langvik
    jørgen langvik 3 years ago +1

    the thing you said about the dragon queen and her dragons
    they weren't fine in the enclosure like you said, they withered away, refusing to eat, nearly dying, and they were not there for very long, but if they had been their growth would definitly have been stunted, if they survived at all.
    I think dragons grow to match the size of their domain like certain other animals, and animal populations.

  • egoBorder
    egoBorder 6 years ago +1

    I wanted to share how I saw Cressen's impact on the larger story. I've heard the theories that the maesters have a huge conspiracy, and while I actually believe them, I think Cressen's chapter is very important in telling us something about that conspiracy: it's so secret not even every maester knows about it.
    I think we're meant to see Cressen's motives as genuine. He really thinks Stannis is being led astray, and because he loves him he will do anything to protect him. The important thing here is that in the end his actions align perfectly with the supposed conspiracy anyway. I think Martin is saying that the difference between these two sides is so fundamental that there's no need to indoctrinate members on either side. Like I doubt anyone ever pulled Melisandre aside and told her it was okay to kill maesters to protect herself and gain influence.
    This all leads me to Luwin, and other maesters serving houses great and small. For better or worse, these are the intelligensia of Westeros. Essos has other religions, and some made it over the Narrow Sea, but Westeros always had the maesters. Despite pitching itself as neutral, it has an ethos like any organization. People who agree with that ethos probably rise high in the ranks, and those who disagree probably don't stick around.
    Long story short: the maesters likely have one or serveral huge conspiracies regarding what to do about the future of Westeros, but it's probably not useful to really worry about whether any specific maester is in on it. It's not like every C.I.A. agent knows everything in every file there

  • Joseph Byrne
    Joseph Byrne 6 years ago +1

    As far as the Maesters eliminating the dragons when they were last around, I always took that as not only them perhaps poisoning the last of the hatchlings and the survivor of the Dance, but also as them setting up the main event that killed most of the dragons during the dance. I mean, the Dance was the bloodiest war Westeros had ever seen at that point, and if the Maesters really did form a plot against the Targaryens, it could've well possibly have been there, after seeing the destruction they wrought with their dragons, and the mountains of dead their infighting could leave. There is no direct proof of it, but if you subscribe to this theory, then one could suggest that the maesters set up the Storming of the Dragonpit. A battle that killed the majority of the dragons still alive at that point. Led by an unknown man, who's true name was never known. He used the faith of the people to stir them up, and got the horde of common people in the city to end many beasts of living flame. Wise men know what men fear, and how to take advantage of it. Even if a they had no direct involvement, who's to say they didn't influence the leader of the Storming to do what he did.

  • MVQlech_67
    MVQlech_67 6 years ago +1

    I have a long fetched theory that there is an ice dragon in the wall. The Horn of Winter is what blows the wall up right? What if that happens because there is a dragon inside the wall that wakes up when the horn blows and destroys the wall. (Given how Euron plans to use Horns to control Daenery's dragons) I think there is a magical barrier in the wall to keep the Others from getting in similar to how Wrights can't get into the Three Eyed Raven's cave because Coldhands couldn't go beyond the wall. So if a White Walker invasion ever happens, the wall needs to come down

  • SirKahless
    SirKahless 6 years ago +1

    Quick guess about the Maesters killing the dragons: The magic reappears in the world when the comet arrived. And we learn in the books that Oldtown basically surpresses the magic in Westeros. So when the comet arrives Oldtown isn't strong enough to surpress the magic anymore for this time - perhaps they will be able to do it again in a few years. But whatever. So what if the Maesters of Oldtown control and surpress the magic which causes also the dragons not to grow big and strong. That would be like taking away their ait to breathe. That would be the same as "killing" them.

  • Theresa Wheeler
    Theresa Wheeler 6 years ago +79

    I need a "Who is responsible for this event" table. Bloodraven, the Maesters, Lil' Finger, or Varys

  • Santiago Piñeiro
    Santiago Piñeiro 6 years ago +1

    You should take in account that maesters can't control magic, as most of them haven't learnt how, and if Magic is here and they can't control it they are almost useless and their power could be in jeopardy. Lords could start changing Maesters for wizards.

  • Der Kreuzritter
    Der Kreuzritter 4 years ago +1

    You could look at Pycelle and how he manipulated the Mad King into opening the gates for Tywin near the end of Roberts Rebellion so is it so far fetched that many maesters are plotting? Now it might not even be a massive plot by every maester I think it's like every other thing in GoT most of them want to further themselves more then the realm but some are actually trying to serve the realm (Luwin for example)

  • Vallin Vallentine
    Vallin Vallentine 6 years ago

    I do have one question. You said at 15:27 that Marwyn scares Sam from telling the Maesters about Danny but there is an exchange between the small council in dance in which Pycelle openly admits that they know of her, her dragons and that they have enough information that it's not to be ignored.

  • MrOrdeoMan
    MrOrdeoMan 4 years ago +1

    Dragons do grow less when they are kept in a enclosure. Look at the size difference between Drogon and the other two dragons, Viserion and Rhaegal.

  • zage pendragon
    zage pendragon 6 years ago

    Excellent video, I am a firm believer in the archmaester conspiracy against dragons, and I believe they orchestrated the poisoning and destruction of the last batches of dragons, since aegon, possibly in revenge because of the field of fire(I'm sure everyone had loved ones lost in that battle) or maybe they have ulterior motives which will hopefully become more clear in WoW

  • Fornicis
    Fornicis 6 years ago

    One thing that I've always wondered about the Maesters is this, those that study "Magic" forge a link of Valyrian Steel, however as stated multiple times in the books and referenced to in the show, is that the art of reforging Valyrian Steel has been all but lost other than with the Qohori, and certainly no-one that we are aware of in Westeros can do it, soooo my question is, how doe the Maesters forge that link? I'm pretty sure they wouldn't have a stockpile of links pre-made as each Maester must forge his own links, is it possible the Maesters have the knowledge to reforge Valyrian Steel? If so, why? And why not share this knowledge or at least profit from it

  • Maggie Flynn
    Maggie Flynn 2 months ago +3

    gonna be really interesting to see what the measters do in House of the Dragon!

  • elfredrick3
    elfredrick3 8 months ago +3

    The Maesters absolutely could of caused/influenced the riot that destroyed the Dragon pit

  • Jacob Hobbs
    Jacob Hobbs 3 months ago +3

    Probably been said before and may be intentional on the part of GRRM, but the maesters remind me of the Bene Gesserit from Dune

  • Thunderstruck Electronix
    Thunderstruck Electronix 2 years ago +1

    I think that they meant the targarians when he said, who do you think killed the dragons the last time around, and pycel was a pawn to do that.
    Also that is why marvin rushed away to save Daenerys, he knew that they were going to kill her

  • FaZe_Buendia
    FaZe_Buendia 6 months ago +2

    Great video as usual! I think the Maesters played a big part in the Targaryen civil war, they call the beginnings of that the War of the Ravens. Preston Jacobs also has a good video on the Maester Master Plan

  • Bob Sanderson
    Bob Sanderson 5 years ago +1

    The Hightower connection to Robert's Rebellion kind of misses the pink elephant in the room. It was Rheagar's purported abduction of Lyanna which inevitably brought war, right? And that ties in nicely with the maester conspiracy theory if you consider the prince that was promised theory. Rheagar had to get that in his head from somewhere, right? R and L's relationship wasn't just about love. That doesn't seem GRRM's style. Some Maester put this legend front and center for Rheagar. Improper motives or no? GRRM works are awash in this kind of irony. Bran wants to stop the NK, but it seems likely his efforts are the cause of the NK. Maesters (some few) wanted to get rid of the Targs to rid the world of "magic blood". Yet in doing so, they inadvertently played right into the legend's game. So how does this play out in the narrative? The maesters know something which gave them cause to believe the legend was phony or impossible. And something more than their intellectual skepticism. The latter being the characterization offered to us in the show, more often than not. And as is GRRM's modus operandi, this information that gave the maester's doubt, is actually a vital clue in defeating the Walkers. Perhaps that was what the faceless man was after in Oldtown (books only). I think the show has already bypassed this whole subplot and will just reveal these clues from Bran's greensight in conjunction with the legends book(or some other text) taken by Sam and Gilly. (Was a pretext, or did the Arch maester deliberately give Sam the book proving Rheagar's annulment?) So what could it be? Something as simple as how to forge Valaryian steel? Or perhaps just to introduce the details of the Azor legend, and analyze what it really means. Some mention of the legend has been made in the show, but not the actual details of the legend. Also have to consider how the maesters will be used in the show? Arrange a war counsel with the disciples of the lord of light? Try to derail Dany? Will Sam become Arch Maester in the end?

  • Nick Schulte
    Nick Schulte 4 years ago +1

    I have trouble buying into a maester conspiracy. I do find it highly likely that some Maesters end up ruling through their lord, for any number of reasons, maliciously or not. Just not some grand conspiracy to kill dragons, end magic, etc. Robert’s Rebellion is plausible. I just have to end with this. Don’t you say one word against Luwin!

  • ironheart191
    ironheart191 4 years ago +1

    I don't know if there was any one or many well-planned conspiracies on part of maesters but even if not. Maeters are, essentially, men of knowledge, men of logic, men of science ... and the conflict between the supernatural, unknowable and unscientific is as old as time. That's one conflict the maesters have with the magic, dragons and purveyors of dark arts.
    Secondly, of course, is a more selfish motive i.e. if magic starts healing people ('resurrections are happening left right and centre"), dragons start winning wars, burning candles becomes messengers faster and more reliable than ravens...all of this, and more, would diminsh the authority of maesters.

  • John Gossett
    John Gossett 6 years ago +1

    To catch an error, you claimed there was no evidence of Dragons within structures growing slower, but Viserion and Rhaegal(?) were kept in a pit in Meereen, and were described as being noticeable smaller than their brother Drogon who was born at the same time and grew up under similar conditions. I believe this counteracts your point, though it is possible that Drogon's freedom and inherently more aggressive disposition resulted in him eating more than his siblings. Anyway, thought it was worthy of consideration that the Maester's claims DO seem founded regarding indoor Dragons being smaller.

  • ShadeStormXD
    ShadeStormXD Year ago +1

    interesting idea; the maesters were involved in wiping out the dragons in the Dance of The Dragons. A main cause of the war was Alicent Hightower pushing for her son Aegon II to be king. As you say in the video, their is great support between the maesters of Oldtown and the Hightowers. Perhaps there is politics in the background wherein the maesters encouraged or influenced Alicent and Otto to push against her husband wishes that his trained and prepared daughter be queen.

  • Kenneth Jordan
    Kenneth Jordan 6 years ago +1

    oh, neat, intelligent theories. I just wandered across this and loved it. (will definitely subscribe) I came to this conclusion by the time I got through the books as well; though I was more convinced myself the maesters were responsible for the lack of magic in westeros. As you say though, there's definitely no concrete evidence yet.

  • Todd Harris
    Todd Harris Year ago +1

    Allowing the Maester's to remain was Aegon the Conqueror's 1st major mistake. They are the reason that the 🐲 s eventually died out, after the Dance. It was the plan of the Seven, ever since the Grand Master locked himself in the High Tower.

  • arcanics1971
    arcanics1971 3 years ago

    I would contend that the Maesters did indeed play a significant part in the demise of the dragons, both through political manipulation that led to the war and more directly in causing the dragons to grow smaller. I believe that the maesters know that magic and dragons are intrinsically linked (increase one and so the other grows and vice verse) and worked to poison each new dragon slowly so its offspring would be smaller.
    I believe that Sam has already found the evidence of this but has yet to read everything he has.
    Obviously I have little to back this up other than the continued hints that magic and dragons are faces of the same coin.